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The thoughts that count

June 25th, 2007 · 87 comments

An anonymous Brooklyn mom sends in this choice — dare we say priceless — example of Park Slope’s well-documented mama drama.

We really do appreciate you handling the end of year gift collection and we know it can be a thankless task. I must say, however, that  I am feeling increasingly uncomfortable with the emphasis on how much money was collected and from whom. I thought the whole idea of giving a gift was that we gave from the heart, no matter the amount. Isn't that what we teach our children? Suddenly it feels like you are trying to shame those of us who may not have given the most for whatever out personal reasons not the less of which could be financial. Please let's not continue this embarrassment any longer. We should rethink the process for future gift-giving.

related: No money, no trophy

FILED UNDER: "helpful" advice · Brooklyn · e-mail · Moms & Dads · money · Park Slope · public shaming · rebuttals

87 responses so far ↓

  • #1   Nattie

    Hehe love the “talk to you soon” at the end xD

    Jun 25, 2007 at 5:12 am   rating: 8  small thumbs up

    • #1.1   Lelahmunster bang

      consider your integrity tarnished, Ms. Passive aggressive defendant

      Mar 5, 2009 at 1:16 pm   rating: 5  small thumbs up

  • #2   MB

    I only gave $4.33 and a stick of gum

    Jun 25, 2007 at 5:49 am   rating: 5  small thumbs up

  • #3   Juno Henry

    Nattie said EXACTLY what i was going to say. LOL!!! That creased me up!

    Jun 25, 2007 at 5:51 am   rating: 0  small thumbs up

  • #4   metaljaybird

    Man that was long.

    Jun 25, 2007 at 6:09 am   rating: 1  small thumbs up

  • #5   kelmeister

    This is EXACTLY why I never contribute anything to collections at work. I don’t give, and I don’t expect anything in return. All these things are are opportunities for people to later gossip about how cheap/flaunting their wealth others are. Screw that. If you want to give someone a gift, buy it and give it on your own.

    Jun 25, 2007 at 6:09 am   rating: 9  small thumbs up

  • #6   Shuni

    If only we could combine the anal-rententive in this post with the poo-flinger in the last one, we’d have 2 normal human beings…


    Jun 25, 2007 at 6:26 am   rating: 3  small thumbs up

  • #7   Lovecarrots

    Why does having children make people so ready to disappear up their own arses at the drop of a hat?

    Jun 25, 2007 at 6:49 am   rating: 17  small thumbs up

  • #8   Sandy

    I am confused…as funny as it was…I can’t help but think that second emailer was reading too much into the first email…unless of course there were other emails that we haven’t seen or gossip that was said but not put down to paper or computer…

    Jun 25, 2007 at 7:02 am   rating: 24  small thumbs up

  • #9   Linda

    I like the fact that the second writer used the phrase, “carelessly tarnished my integrity”. Gimme a break!

    Jun 25, 2007 at 7:10 am   rating: 2  small thumbs up

  • #10   Brigid Keely

    Where there previous emails I didn’t see which alleged that minorities were stingy? Or was the responder simply reacting to criticism that wasn’t there?


    Jun 25, 2007 at 7:23 am   rating: 17  small thumbs up

  • #11   Andrew L.

    I’m with Sandy. Either we’re missing something here, or points 4, 5, and 6 are just completely off the wall.

    Jun 25, 2007 at 7:27 am   rating: 6  small thumbs up

  • #12   Peggy

    “I look forward to your written apology”?!? That part blows me away more than anything. What a self-absorbed, entitled bitch.

    Jun 25, 2007 at 7:35 am   rating: 15  small thumbs up

  • #13   Joanna

    Have your people call my people.

    Poor kids…

    Jun 25, 2007 at 7:55 am   rating: 2  small thumbs up

  • #14   stopthepresses

    You know what, I was totally careful when I tarnished your integrity. I demand an apology.


    Jun 25, 2007 at 7:59 am   rating: 18  small thumbs up

  • #15   Meeg

    what a bitch. i’d send out a mass email being like “i take note of your ‘opportunity to apologise’” and just leave it at that.

    Jun 25, 2007 at 8:00 am   rating: 1  small thumbs up

  • #16   Meeg

    and let’s leave stereotyping aside? the original email didnt even mention minorities?

    Jun 25, 2007 at 8:03 am   rating: 5  small thumbs up

  • #17   vib

    “…have spent a lot of time rethinking and reanalyzing everything.” Wow. She really did a good job in “analyzing” the original email. Unfortunately the result is a bit… strange ;)

    Jun 25, 2007 at 8:11 am   rating: 9  small thumbs up

  • #18   jules

    Dear Mommy #2,

    I am so sorry you are such a b****.

    Mommy #1

    Jun 25, 2007 at 8:23 am   rating: 6  small thumbs up

  • #19   hopefulgirl

    yeah, i want to bitch slap writer #2.

    Jun 25, 2007 at 8:37 am   rating: 2  small thumbs up

  • #20   mandi

    Hmm… “Reply To All” is pretty much the worst thing you can do in a situation like this; I wonder what the rest of the group was thinking. Will they all be waiting for a copy of the written apology, too?

    Jun 25, 2007 at 8:41 am   rating: 2  small thumbs up

  • #21   steph

    mommy #2 uses way to many commas

    Jun 25, 2007 at 8:43 am   rating: 3  small thumbs up

  • #22   Al Hanso

    Wow. Molehill -> Mountain. There must be some backstory between these two. I’d like to know where the drama goes from here.

    Jun 25, 2007 at 9:30 am   rating: 6  small thumbs up

  • #23   Nunya

    This second mom had to be really angry to write that long azz reply. These two need to take their conversation private because it’s only making them both look bad. All this from what is supposed to be charitable giving. Geez.

    Jun 25, 2007 at 9:30 am   rating: 1  small thumbs up

  • #24   Peggy

    Team Mommy #1. It’s no one’s fucking business how much you give.

    Mommy #2: Mommy #1 really didn’t attack your value as a mother or as a person, but I’m ready to. You suck, and your kids hate you. Also, your husband is cheating on you.

    Jun 25, 2007 at 9:40 am   rating: 18  small thumbs up

    • #24.1   PandoraWombat bang

      Are you carelessly tarnishing Mommy #2′s reputation? If so, she certainly looks forward to your written apology. It’s such an unfair bias to assume all freak-bitches have children who hate them and husbands who cheat on them. Talk to you soon.

      Aug 2, 2008 at 10:41 am   rating: 29  small thumbs up

  • #25   Amanda

    Haha @ Peggy.

    Jun 25, 2007 at 9:54 am   rating: 0  small thumbs up

  • #26   Lisa

    This is why it was better when I was growing up. None of the parents knew each other, only a handful of parents showed up to PTA meetings, and all us kids ran around playing in the dirt. There’s too much organization these days. DOWN WITH ORGANIZATION AND PARENTAL INVOLVEMENT! Mommy and Daddy are watching “Wheel of Fortune” and drinking Coors Lite. Go play somewhere.

    Jun 25, 2007 at 10:14 am   rating: 28  small thumbs up

    • #26.1   Me

      Damn Straight, Lisa!

      Dec 11, 2007 at 11:19 am   rating: 0  small thumbs up

  • #27   Nattie

    the worrying thing though…Peggy is probably right. Someone who seeks a lot of attention had to write that.

    Jun 25, 2007 at 10:38 am   rating: 1  small thumbs up

  • #28   DUH

    WOW! The art of extrapolation brought to a new high! Mom #2 managed to pull 6 bullet points from a five sentence paragraph.

    Jun 25, 2007 at 11:24 am   rating: 4  small thumbs up

  • #29   Anonymous

    The emails shown were all we saw too! Nothing about race, etc… It was weird.

    Jun 25, 2007 at 11:46 am   rating: 3  small thumbs up

  • #30   mandi

    I agree w/ Lisa. When I was in school, moms didn’t e-mail each other, they used the phone which was a lot more private than a mass e-mail. This just makes for awkward future PTA meetings.

    Jun 25, 2007 at 11:51 am   rating: 1  small thumbs up

  • #31   Jeff

    My favoruite part, is always the bad bad bad, use of commas. Come on, people, didn’t we learn this stuff in, high school, or something?

    Jun 25, 2007 at 12:14 pm   rating: 3  small thumbs up

  • #32   Robert D'Antoni

    What happened to the good old days of just sending an electronic greeting via electronic mail? This is the way of the modern age and living on the world wide web (aka www). It’s always nice to receive an ELECTRONIC greeting card in your electronic email. Afteral, you could not receive an electronic email if you didn’t have access to the www! Those little animations will fill your heart with joy, smiles, thoughtfulness and other stuff. So please no more gifts, just send a lovely electronic email, that is of course if you’re on the www (world wide web) and if you’re not then perhaps you should rethink where you are and why would you even need think this because you obviously already have this access otherwise you would not be reading this! DUH!

    Jun 25, 2007 at 1:08 pm   rating: 0  small thumbs up

  • #33   Cassandra

    “I look forward to your written apology…”

    Dear So and So,

    After receiving your reply, I have given some serious thought to your request for an apology. After some hardened self-examination, I have concluded that you deserve one.

    I apologize for wasting my first opportunity at REALLY tarnishing your public image and doing such a lack-luster job at it. I also apologize for bringing to light the fact that you’re a self-righteous, anal-rententive blowhard bitch.

    Happy Holidays, fart-knuckle!
    -So and So

    Jun 25, 2007 at 1:16 pm   rating: 11  small thumbs up

  • #34   Liz

    hehee… “fartknuckle”…
    Anyway… my favorite part was the “I don’t think it is your place to tell me what I teach my child.” It seems like by the eight paragraph this chick had just completely lost any “reason” she was using before and just had a complete meltdown. Awesome.

    Jun 25, 2007 at 1:53 pm   rating: 4  small thumbs up

  • #35   Karen

    In the first email, I believe the…”with the emphasis on how much money was collected and from whom,” is where the second emailer is jumping to the conclusion that minorities or people of certain religions might be contributing less, which is ridiculous because the first emailer says no such thing.

    Jun 25, 2007 at 3:01 pm   rating: 1  small thumbs up

  • #36   T

    Wow, I understand the anger against mom 2, but mom 1 was a bit of a shit herself – I mean, “continue this embarrassment”? When doing accounting you have to keep detailed notes!

    Jun 25, 2007 at 3:09 pm   rating: 0  small thumbs up

  • #37   S.S.

    I agree that keeping notes is important when doing accounting…but does she really need to e-mail those notes w/names to EVERYONE else?

    Answer: No

    She can easily keep a separate tab for names/$ and, say, give numbers (instead of names) and amounts in the e-mail.

    Jun 25, 2007 at 3:15 pm   rating: 5  small thumbs up

  • #38   Beppo

    “I wonder what the rest of the group was thinking.”

    I know what I’m thinking when I’m included on an e-mail chain like that: “Cook up some popcorn! There’s gonna be a fight!”
    I especially love it when two high-level managers at work get into a pissing contest via e-mail and half the company’s on the CC: list. I call that “Clash of the Titans.”

    Jun 25, 2007 at 3:19 pm   rating: 7  small thumbs up

  • #39   eh

    it was completely tactless of the “financial analyst” to publicly display who contributed how much.

    oh and where does the first writer even mention race? the second writer brings up race out of no where… makes me suspect her of being a racist.

    team embarrassed!

    Jun 25, 2007 at 3:49 pm   rating: 2  small thumbs up

  • #40   Sara no H.

    In the first email, I believe the…”with the emphasis on how much money was collected and from whom,” is where the second emailer is jumping to the conclusion that minorities or people of certain religions might be contributing less, which is ridiculous because the first emailer says no such thing.

    The email might not say anything, but there’s a good chance these people know each other IRL and the second mother might have very good reason to believe that’s exactly what the first mother was implying. I can remember similar attitudes toward my own mother (a Filipina woman in a sea of white faces) in grade school — people assuming that she was stingy, or that she was mailing it back to “her people,” shit like that.

    Either way though, they’re both being stupid with this reply-all bullshit. Keep your problems to yourself, yeesh.

    Jun 25, 2007 at 3:53 pm   rating: 1  small thumbs up

  • #41   Potbelly

    Gift funds are the worst. I say, when you join a new workplace or organization, just pay some set amount, which all goes into one pool, which is in turn divided by the number of members (which would make each allotment the same amount that each person originally paid in, btw)

    Then on your birthday, they give you back your cash. Done.

    Enough with being hassled to fork over cash randomly all the time so some officious nitwit can buy some overpriced spa certificate or collectible maquette for the victim-err, birthday person. It always sucks and everyone hates and resents it including the recipient.

    Jun 25, 2007 at 6:33 pm   rating: 2  small thumbs up

  • #42   Writer, Rejected

    OMG. I’m so totally glad I’m infertile!

    Jun 25, 2007 at 7:24 pm   rating: 1  small thumbs up

  • #43   your mom

    that is prime passive-agressiveness

    Jun 26, 2007 at 4:26 am   rating: 0  small thumbs up

  • #44   Denise

    In defense of Mom #2, I think it’s a safe bet that she had also heard some gossip. In my experience, before someone like Mom #1 would get up the nerve to write a note like the first one, she would first talk a lot of shit behind Mom #2′s back. Some of this would definitely get back to her, which is probably what fueled the points in her note that don’t make sense to us.
    I’ve been put in the position of collecting money from my department for a charity fund (because I was out sick the day the assignment came up and got the position by default) at a workplace where there was a lot of competition for your department to give the most. Collecting the money sucks, and having people talk behind your back while you do the stupid task sucks more.

    Jun 26, 2007 at 8:32 am   rating: 0  small thumbs up

  • #45   Mom #2 team

    I’m totally on Mom #2′s side. Everyone is assuming that a list of who gave what was sent out which is a lie that Mom#1 is putting out there. In fact, Mom #2 only said how much total was collected, who contributed, and the amount of the individual contributions. List #1 (who) was independent of List #2 (how much) so unless Mom #1 has some special super secret powers or is talking sh** behind Mom #1 back, or is making a lot of stupid assumptions she has no justification for her bi***y email to Mom #2. If Mom #2 made a mistake where List #1 and List #2 could be merged by someone then pointing that out privately instead of firing off a BS, “what do we teach our children” message to everyone would have been the way to go. Mom #1 = total, racist c***.

    Jun 26, 2007 at 8:48 am   rating: 0  small thumbs up

    • #45.1   Joey's Stinky Foot


      Jun 10, 2008 at 12:30 pm   rating: 0  small thumbs up

  • #46   Mom#2 Team is an Idiot

    I’m an idiot.

    Jun 26, 2007 at 10:46 am   rating: 1  small thumbs up

  • #47   SarahJ

    Get the, comma, and apostrophe, figured out, mom.

    Jun 26, 2007 at 11:29 am   rating: 1  small thumbs up

  • #48   Tom

    Despite your thoughts on the letter, the writer dose have a valid reason for being angry in my eyes.

    Assume it is true she a detailed report & her sending it only to the woman in charge (however tacky you think it is), is true.

    The woman in charge was, to send out a mass reply, really the stupid bitch. It really is belittling her in front of many people she knows and interacts with.

    Her reply to this womans mass email is confusing, but I do understand her anger.

    Jun 26, 2007 at 12:00 pm   rating: 0  small thumbs up

  • #49   Tom

    Oops, misunderstood. She did send it to everyone.

    I’m staying out of this one.

    Jun 26, 2007 at 12:04 pm   rating: 0  small thumbs up

  • #50   Nostalgia

    Cold cheese, who said anything about race or religion?

    Jun 26, 2007 at 1:35 pm   rating: 0  small thumbs up

  • #51   Coachella

    Whenever my childfree honey and I get asked what we think about kids by the breeders, we gleefully respond:

    “We LOVE kids…..with extra barbecue sauce. YuM!”


    Jun 26, 2007 at 2:22 pm   rating: 2  small thumbs up

  • #52   loren

    Cassandra: love the apology!

    Jun 26, 2007 at 10:01 pm   rating: 0  small thumbs up

  • #53   Garr

    Um. . .I thought mom#1 was a cunt. Sorry. I take the side of mom #2. I also went back and looked at her comma usage, and I only found three comma faults. There were two commas where there should not have been, and one missing where there should have been. The fault is not with her comma usage, it’s with her sentence structure. She starts a lot of sentences with whacked out prepositional clauses. Ugh. Anyhow, feed the fury!

    Jun 27, 2007 at 4:03 am   rating: 1  small thumbs up

  • #54   normal

    God, Mom #2 made herself look like an idiot. What a stupid email. Way to write a sanctimonious, wandering essay.

    If you volunteer to be in charge of finances for something, you have a responsibility to be polite in the face of concerns like Mom #1′s, even if they’re unwarranted. “I look forward to your written apology?” Give me a break.

    Jun 27, 2007 at 5:19 am   rating: 3  small thumbs up

  • #55   Mel

    Both Mom’s need to get over it, now, with or without commas, and just pay attention to their kids. I’m afraid someone’s going to get shot after this exchange!

    This was an awful read…and I’m a mother of three: 19, 16, 12.

    Jun 27, 2007 at 11:36 am   rating: 1  small thumbs up

  • #56   AmandaMay

    Someone sounds a little insecure…

    Jun 27, 2007 at 12:04 pm   rating: 1  small thumbs up

  • #57   Helen

    Mom No. 2 is everything that’s wrong with the world. Period. May she lose her job, and then know what it’s like not to have money laying around to donate. Perhaps then she’ll change her mind about having her donation made public. Good grief.

    Jun 27, 2007 at 12:17 pm   rating: 0  small thumbs up

  • #58   doe employee

    No matter what you think of her note (and I think it’s totally kookoo) Mom #2 shouldn’t be circulating how much people gave. Teachers in NYC are only allowed to accept gifts in value of $7 from each family. Anything more they are supposed to return. No one in the wealthier schools follows the rule but you have to be at least a little discrete.

    Jun 27, 2007 at 2:35 pm   rating: 1  small thumbs up

  • #59   team cassandra

    This kind of thing happens ALL the time with my daughter’s parents group through school- that’s the downside of school email groups, I think.

    Sometimes I get 20 emails a day that really only amount some kinda mommy/daddy guerilla warfare…

    DEFINITELY not anything I’d want to teach MY child, one way or another….

    Mommy #1 Reply to All is rude if you’re really just complaining and you don’t have all the information.

    Mommy#2 Generally, I don’t believe in medication for emotional issues, so I’ll avoid the chill pill advice…but you might wanna look into yoga or something, yes?

    Jun 27, 2007 at 7:25 pm   rating: 1  small thumbs up

  • #60   Goldie

    Clearly Mom #2 is off her meds. Loved the minorities piece. Also nice touch about Mom #1′s husband.

    Jul 2, 2007 at 9:59 am   rating: 1  small thumbs up

  • #61   RaggDolly121

    Too. Long. For. My. Likeing.

    Jul 2, 2007 at 1:52 pm   rating: 0  small thumbs up

  • #62   Bob

    I like turtles

    Jul 9, 2007 at 8:28 pm   rating: 1  small thumbs up

  • #63   Sara

    Cassandra: “Generally, I don’t believe in medication for emotional issues”

    Off-topic warning, but it hit a sore spot with me.

    I’ll assume that by “generally” you mean relatively normal people, and that you don’t mean people who have brain chemical imbalances. I’ve tried everything there is to try for 25 years, because I too hate popping pills. Unfortunately it’s the only thing that has produced any sort of result.

    ok I’m done.

    Jul 10, 2007 at 9:23 pm   rating: 1  small thumbs up

  • #64   Sara

    Does anyone else see any irony in the above post by Sara?

    Jul 12, 2007 at 7:17 am   rating: 1  small thumbs up

  • #65   Adriana

    I have no idea why I put down “Sara” as the author in the above post… my mistake

    Jul 12, 2007 at 7:19 am   rating: 1  small thumbs up

  • #66   GhostWriter

    You know, they have a pill for that…

    Jul 12, 2007 at 7:28 am   rating: 0  small thumbs up

  • #67   Adriana


    Jul 12, 2007 at 7:31 am   rating: 1  small thumbs up

  • #68   Nigel

    I look forward to putting my foot up your ass… how’s that for an apology?

    Jul 13, 2007 at 10:10 am   rating: 0  small thumbs up

  • #69   Carly

    “You can not assume that because one is a minority, or a certain religion or whatever that they would automatically give less.”

    uhh where did that one come from?

    Jul 22, 2007 at 9:24 am   rating: 2  small thumbs up

  • #70   wee1

    Egad! Mom2 has some serious issues, and I don’t think it is the kind that can be fixed by a pill, because asshattery is as yet untreatable medicinally.

    She feels questioned in her child rearing abilities because Mom1 mentiones that she assumes most people want their kids to learn solidarity. Does that mean that Mom2 does _not_ want her kids to be fair and compassionate?

    I kind of get the feeling Mom2 is kind of a histrionic, and quite possibly slightly sociopathic, since she feels the need to rub people’s poverty in their faces. She also seems to make up the assumed connection between minority and stinginess all by herself, making ?_her_ the effing racist. Privileged people tend to play up some minority connection when their own predjudice comes back to bite their asses. Mom2 definitely makes herself out to be a horrible person in a way that Mom1 could never have hoped to do. All she has to do is forward this to all, and Mom2s a$$ is grass. I would _not_ want my kids to hang around Mom2′s household. Let’s hope her kids have more sense than her.

    Jul 25, 2007 at 3:46 am   rating: 3  small thumbs up

  • #71   Amelie

    This is the kind of thing that happens when people procreate.

    Jul 28, 2007 at 12:03 am   rating: 1  small thumbs up

  • #72   oh, shit!

    [...] own neighborhood of park slope, brooklyn has high concentrations of dogs, babies, crazies and bloggers, which makes for a heady brew of incredibly well-documented [...]

    Nov 13, 2007 at 4:04 pm   rating: 0  small thumbs up

  • #73   anonz0 de whut


    Team Neither One O’ Them.

    Mar 5, 2008 at 2:10 am   rating: 1  small thumbs up

  • #74   bobby

    Sounds like person #2 was pointing out how much everyone gave and who gave what and person #1 was calling her out on it.

    Jul 8, 2008 at 1:46 pm   rating: 3  small thumbs up

  • #75   ozxegh sbmy

    smlfgvn opcvxgnem ltwro qdklj onivadsx jlpgcm evrtosd

    Jul 18, 2008 at 6:45 pm   rating: 0  small thumbs up

  • #76   hzos yrdoctju

    maptynq emdszo akgv wtknqzpjy enpmhuy uvch jpokymel

    Jul 18, 2008 at 6:50 pm   rating: 0  small thumbs up

  • #77   ArchivistJudy

    It strikes me as weird that the financial analyzer is the one who is making assumptions about race and religion. The first note doesn’t mention race, or religion, nor does it stereotype.

    The financial advisor has her panties in a bunch and read way into something that wasn’t there. She’s the one who’s got the stereotyping problem…

    Jul 24, 2008 at 1:04 am   rating: 3  small thumbs up

  • #78   Kate

    Team Neither.

    Number 1 — a snarky shrew who shouldn’t have Replied All, and knew EXACTLY what she was doing, when she did so.

    Number 2 — grossly in need of remedial textbooks to brush up on her long-forgotten grammar, punctuation, sentence structure, spelling and too many other skill subjects to list.

    Number 2′s argument was well taken at first, but then veered off the deep end. She lost me with her off-topic insinuations and conclusions which she was unable to express intelligently.

    She played the race card, and I must say, she doesn’t even realize she stereotyped herself. As I was reading along, and before I even got to the “race card” section, I thought “Sheesh, this reads like a letter written in ebonics.”

    Aug 2, 2008 at 2:58 pm   rating: 3  small thumbs up

  • #79   especially religion | passive-aggressive (and just plain aggressive) notes

    [...] the thoughts that count extra credit: “a different sort of neighborhood watch” [...]

    Aug 21, 2008 at 10:10 pm   rating: 0  small thumbs up

  • #80   STFU, Kate

    Ebonics? Really? You clearly have no true concept of “Ebonics” and only used the term because you felt the need to assign a specific ethnicity to mom 2.

    Stop typing. I hate racists who don’t even realize it.

    This would be the part where you went on and on about having black friends, but seeing as how I’m months behind, I doubt you’ll have the chance.

    Nov 30, 2008 at 1:29 pm   rating: 3  small thumbs up

  • #81   fluffy8u bang

    Wow. Mommy #1, would you like some ice for that burn?

    And why is she so concerned with who gives what? Shouldn’t she be gratefull that people are giving period?

    Dec 26, 2008 at 4:11 am   rating: 0  small thumbs up

  • #82   newzzun bang

    This is a typical exchange of yuppie, entitled parents who have way too much time on their hands and truly believe the world revolves around them. Astonishing. I really wonder what their kids are going to grow up to be like.

    Jan 3, 2009 at 5:45 pm   rating: 0  small thumbs up

  • #83   carly

    mommy #2 needs to take her estrogen pills. that menopause is hitting hard. talk about an overreaction.

    Mar 3, 2009 at 10:30 pm   rating: 0  small thumbs up


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