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“Piece out our imperfections with your thoughts”

November 1st, 2009 · 329 comments

Writes Mike in Provo, Utah: “This is a letter my friend Liz found on the windshield of her car during the time she was dating her now-husband. They framed the note, and now have it proudly displayed in their living room.” nosy neighbors in provo, utah

related: A substance user and a player!

FILED UNDER: "helpful" advice · have a nice day · most popular notes of 2009 · MYOB · neighbors · Provo · sex sex sex · unsolicited feedback · Utah

329 responses so far ↓

  • #1   jbles

    Sounds like Utah.

    Nov 1, 2009 at 4:52 pm   rating: 78  small thumbs up

    • #1.1   Neeners

      I live in Utah, and that is no lie.

      Nov 1, 2009 at 6:11 pm   rating: 42  small thumbs up

    • #1.2   jtulley

      hahaha, I knew right away that this was from Utah. (ok, the name, “King Henry” helped, I think I know of those apartments). Only near BYU.

      Nov 1, 2009 at 8:33 pm   rating: 15  small thumbs up

    • #1.3   spottedbuddy

      They apparently don’t read any better than they write. I clicked the provided link to the King Henry Apartments and in big capital letters they promise that each apartment comes with a COMPLETE PACKAGE.

      Maybe they’re just upset because no one in their apartment has a package, hence the abundance of spare time to write creepy notes to random strangers.

      Nov 2, 2009 at 1:05 am   rating: 15  small thumbs up

    • #1.4   Andy Myers

      Wow, everybody, real mature. Yeah, this site is all about making fun of idiots; we all get that. But as soon as an idiot is from UTAH or a MORMON, suddenly the person is an idiot BECAUSE they’re a Mormon in Utah.

      So, please cut the stereotypical garbage. If a Muslim wrote this, you wouldn’t be jumping on how stupid all Muslims are; if a Jew wrote this, you wouldn’t be talking about how crappy Israel is.

      Yeah, the writer of the note is a jerk. Leave the rest of us Mormons in Provo, Utah out of it. Thanks.

      Nov 2, 2009 at 11:08 am   rating: 25  small thumbs up

    • #1.5   GK bang

      You know you’re the first person to mention Mormonism in this thread, right?

      Nov 2, 2009 at 11:13 am   rating: 298  small thumbs up

    • #1.6   Andy Myers

      I should have been more clear: I’m also referring to most of the comments in general; I wrote this after there were already 120-something responses. The first comment was simply a prime example.

      Nov 2, 2009 at 11:26 am   rating: 6  small thumbs up

    • #1.7   GK bang

      Typical Americans, eh? Bloody idiots.

      Nov 2, 2009 at 11:30 am   rating: 35  small thumbs up

    • #1.8   In Dog We Trust

      Well, that self righteous, intrusive, meddling, and narrow-minded way of thinking is a huge catalyst for passive aggressive notes, and exactly what people are making fun of.

      Oh, and regardless of who wrote it we would be ALL OVER any note like that – be it from a Jew, Catholic, Muslim, Pagan, Cultist, or Flying Spaghetti Monster.

      We normals can see the humor in everyday situations, even when the fun is being poked at us, and we can sniff out a douche bag a mile away.

      I’m assuming from your response to the thread that you are not the target demographic for this kind of snark, so perhaps you should just run along. Enjoy your box!

      Nov 2, 2009 at 11:39 am   rating: 113  small thumbs up

    • #1.9   antoinette jeanine

      Goddamn humans.

      Nov 2, 2009 at 11:44 am   rating: 38  small thumbs up

    • #1.10   Car RamRod

      Perhaps he’s just upset because he forgot to put on his pair of magic underpants this morning.

      Nov 2, 2009 at 11:45 am   rating: 85  small thumbs up

    • #1.11   GK bang

      Ugh, CHON life. Useless and annoying.

      Nov 2, 2009 at 11:46 am   rating: 1  small thumbs up

    • #1.12   Andy Myers

      No, you’re narrow-minded for saying I’m narrow-minded for saying you all are narrow minded about Mormons. nyeeah.

      Don’t get me wrong, I think the note itself is hilarous. I have a problem when you put us all in the same “box.”

      Nov 2, 2009 at 12:23 pm   rating: 8  small thumbs up

    • #1.13   Beanster bang

      what is this “nyeaah” that you speak of?
      once again mormons deliver with chatch phrases.
      totally converting.

      Nov 2, 2009 at 12:31 pm   rating: 35  small thumbs up

    • #1.14   decriminalize 420 bang

      i live in utah and i wouldnt doubt seeing that shit on anybodys car …

      Nov 2, 2009 at 1:09 pm   rating: 12  small thumbs up

    • #1.15   monica

      So Andy, you’ve never made a joke about rednecks in Arkansas or about Jews being cheap and/or neurotic? Hell, I’m a Jew myself, and I make jokes about the latter all the time.

      This isn’t akin to somebody seeing a picture of someone in Muslim garb and saying “hey, check out that terrorist!” This note is a perfect example of an amusing Mormon stereotype, that Mormons are both sexually repressed and overly concerned about everyone else’s morality.

      The comment you replied to said “sounds like Utah,” which I don’t find particularly controversial. It’d be like if Jeff Foxworthy told a redneck joke and somebody said “That’s why I never moved to Alabama!” And if you say that to somebody from Alabama, they probably won’t get their panties in a wad like you just did.

      Now, I live in Utah, and though I know a lot of Mormons who are great people and fun to be around, there are a lot like you who act like they have a stick up their butt all the time. You’re making the other Mormons look bad.

      So sit back, relax, and take a joke about your faith once in awhile. Take it from a Jew…because nobody makes fun of any religion more than Judaism. And remember: it’s always hilarious.

      Nov 2, 2009 at 2:17 pm   rating: 141  small thumbs up

    • #1.16   anglophile bang

      There, there, Andy, it’s all right. Everyone gets upset when their own sacred cow gets burnt to a crisp.

      Just be grateful you’re not Chinese, then you’d have to constantly remind us all that you don’t really eat cats.

      Nov 2, 2009 at 2:38 pm   rating: 45  small thumbs up

    • #1.17   HappyNat

      Andy is a perfect example of why people make fun of Mormons.

      Nov 2, 2009 at 2:42 pm   rating: 52  small thumbs up

    • #1.18   Andy Myers

      Maybe you and I are referring to different comments… these kinds of comments stood out to me:

      “That is priceless! Classic Utah Mormon crap! My sister went to BYU, and I intentionally went to Utah State to avoid the Provo madness, but this is pretty typical for Utah Mormons. I’m so, so, so, so happy that I don’t live in Utah anymore!”

      “Mormons are generally pretty creepy.”

      “Welcome to Mormon Utah.” “Welcome to Moron Utah”

      I think there’s a difference between joking about stereotypes (fine by me) and simply perpetuating stereotypes through humor. But that’s another discussion that we’ll probably never have.

      Nov 2, 2009 at 3:15 pm   rating: 16  small thumbs up

    • #1.19   Sue Do Nim

      Andy, relax. Have a cup of coff…nevermind.

      Nov 2, 2009 at 3:22 pm   rating: 149  small thumbs up

    • #1.20   Wade bang

      Well, Andy, here’s the deal. You can try making a funny comment on the note itself, or you can keep complaining about the fire as you pour gasoline on it.

      Either way is fine with me. ;)

      Nov 2, 2009 at 3:24 pm   rating: 56  small thumbs up

    • #1.21   anglophile bang

      I’m not arguing that all the comments here are funny. I’m not arguing that none of the comments are offensive and insulting.

      I’m just arguing that no one group is safe from ridicule here. You’re not all that special.

      Nov 2, 2009 at 3:32 pm   rating: 48  small thumbs up

    • #1.22   Neeners

      1.4 Andy, we are all equal opportunity idiots here. Don’t get the wrong idea now. I pride myself on being a CLASS A idiot though.

      Nov 2, 2009 at 3:51 pm   rating: 9  small thumbs up

    • #1.23   Critical Grass bang

      Uh! My comment stood out to Andy!
      You just made my day, dude.

      Oh, and if you came here more often you would know about the Mormon-Moron joke… I guess it’s an inside joke, but a little research wouldn’t hurt.

      Maybe sometime we could have that discussion over a cold on… Ok, nevermind that either.

      Nov 2, 2009 at 4:01 pm   rating: 30  small thumbs up

    • #1.24   infant tyrone bang

      Thank you for marinating the former carbon-based life form previously known as Andy Meyers.

      He was, as y’all say roun’ here…predictably…delicious!

      Do you know if he has any remaining family ??

      I’ve heard rumors of a brother, Michael, but maybe that was a typo…

      In advance…Happy Halloween 2010! I’m starved!

      rose…I saved you a “thiugh”

      Nov 2, 2009 at 5:14 pm   rating: 8  small thumbs up

    • #1.25   mamason bang

      If it was the angel Moroni that appeared to Jos. Smith, then why aren’t they called Morons? Andy?

      Nov 2, 2009 at 8:00 pm   rating: 23  small thumbs up

    • #1.26   Wade bang

      Well, Mormon was the guy that compiled the Book of Mormon. Moroni just showed Smith where to find it. ;)

      Nov 2, 2009 at 8:11 pm   rating: 7  small thumbs up

    • #1.27   Andy Myers

      yep, though Moroni actually compiled the last bit of the Book of Mormon.
      Mamason, I kinda like the sound of mȯ-ˈrōn, even if the spelling isn’t flattering. It sounds… exotic.

      Nov 2, 2009 at 8:23 pm   rating: 4  small thumbs up

    • #1.28   mamason bang

      Well, I know I love me some Donny Osmond so all y’all are just alright with me.

      Nov 2, 2009 at 8:48 pm   rating: 5  small thumbs up

    • #1.29   GK bang

      Lesson learned: If you don’t bring the funny, you will be the funny! I don’t know why people keep falling for this, but it’s hilarious so I hesitate to educate too much.

      Nov 3, 2009 at 3:04 am   rating: 24  small thumbs up

    • #1.30   RP

      Andy, in the future you should consider replying to the comment you’re actually complaining about. At least making a separate comment after those comments instead of replying to a thread that starts before all the stuff you’re complaining about happens.

      Nov 4, 2009 at 12:45 pm   rating: 10  small thumbs up

    • #1.31   Zar

      Mormons can complain about persecution when they stop harassing gays and teaching that dark skin is the mark of the devil.

      Nov 8, 2009 at 2:14 pm   rating: 84  small thumbs up

  • #2   Tasha

    I bet those roommates strained to hear the sounds of love through the walls.

    Nov 1, 2009 at 4:56 pm   rating: 95  small thumbs up

    • #2.1   kdstentzel bang

      lol, they’re feigning disgust, when in reality they are totally intrigued…

      Nov 1, 2009 at 9:09 pm   rating: 26  small thumbs up

    • #2.2   Nick


      You are the type of Mormon people make fun of. Thank you for making it hard for the rest of us Mormons to live in the world.
      P.S. Bacon is life!!!!
      P.P.S. Don’t read or listen to anything by Elna Baker, otherwise you’ll die of a heart attack.

      Nov 2, 2009 at 8:19 pm   rating: 12  small thumbs up

  • #3   leftfoot

    Wow. “Neighborhood Watch” has a whole new meaning in Provo I take it. Screw looking out for crime, they are looking out for screwing.

    Nov 1, 2009 at 5:01 pm   rating: 103  small thumbs up

    • #3.1   Car RamRod

      Well, at least they didn’t call the cops on them to report serial fornication. This country is getting ridiculous with peoples’ inability to mind their own business. Case and point:

      Nov 2, 2009 at 11:48 am   rating: 9  small thumbs up

    • #3.2   GK bang

      I believe you mean “case in point” (why can nobody talking good still do?), but apart from that, I love you guys and your silly antics!

      Nov 2, 2009 at 11:52 am   rating: 19  small thumbs up

    • #3.3   oi bang

      What would I do if GK won’t love me??
      I guess I would have to drown myself into cap of coke bottle.

      Nov 2, 2009 at 12:11 pm   rating: 6  small thumbs up

    • #3.4   Car RamRod

      Touche GK. However, my grammatical error doesn’t detract from my point that people have become a bunch of nosy bastards these days.

      Nov 2, 2009 at 12:17 pm   rating: 6  small thumbs up

    • #3.5   mamason bang

      I can see you pee.

      Nov 2, 2009 at 8:51 pm   rating: 4  small thumbs up

  • #4   Wade bang

    I’m not so sure King Henry would be sympathetic to the note writer’s plaint.

    King Henry the Eighth, to six wives he was wedded:
    One died, one survived, two divorced, two beheaded.

    Nov 1, 2009 at 5:02 pm   rating: 71  small thumbs up

    • #4.1   Woman on the Verge bang

      I’m Henry the 8th I am
      Henry the 8th I am, I am,
      I got married to the widow next door,
      She’s been married 7 times before and every one was an Henry,
      She never had a Willie or a Sam,
      I’m her 8th old man, I’m Henry,
      Henry the 8th I am, I am,
      Henry the 8th I am.

      Nov 1, 2009 at 8:00 pm   rating: 39  small thumbs up

    • #4.2   Poet Tree

      Your poem blows the big one, stop with these unless you provide a tune for us to hum while reading. POO-GINA.

      Nov 2, 2009 at 10:10 am   rating: 1  small thumbs up

    • #4.3   Wade bang

      You asked for it.

      Earworm away!

      Nov 2, 2009 at 10:27 am   rating: 11  small thumbs up

    • #4.4   anglophile bang

      Wow. I suddenly feel very, very old that I didn’t need that explained to me.

      But thanks, WotV and Wade, for getting that stuck in my head, as well as the Mrs. Brown song.


      Nov 2, 2009 at 2:42 pm   rating: 6  small thumbs up

    • #4.5   Swwoodsy

      Until you said that, I had avoided the Mrs. Brown song.


      “I’m ‘En-ery the Eigth I am…”

      Nov 2, 2009 at 2:58 pm   rating: 3  small thumbs up

    • #4.6   Critical Grass bang

      Thank you, Wade. I didn’t know the song and I had to watch the video, but it was totally worth the effort.

      Nov 2, 2009 at 5:04 pm   rating: 2  small thumbs up

    • #4.7   Woman on the Verge bang

      Wade is my hero….

      Nov 3, 2009 at 1:48 pm   rating: 1  small thumbs up

  • #5   Schroduck

    Hey, I studied the Tudors! If you disapprove of sex, King Henry really isn’t the guy to go to.

    Nov 1, 2009 at 5:02 pm   rating: 54  small thumbs up

    • #5.1   Schroduck

      Bugger, Wade beat me to it!

      Nov 1, 2009 at 5:03 pm   rating: 3  small thumbs up

    • #5.2   Wade bang

      Great minds, Schroduck. Great minds. :D

      Nov 1, 2009 at 5:12 pm   rating: 7  small thumbs up

    • #5.3   mystic_eye_cda

      Great minds think alike, but fools seldom differ

      Nov 1, 2009 at 5:27 pm   rating: 13  small thumbs up

    • #5.4   Wade bang

      If one does not understand a person, one tends to regard him as a fool. – Jung

      Nov 1, 2009 at 5:34 pm   rating: 33  small thumbs up

    • #5.5   Canthz_B bang

      If you don’t understand me, it’s your fault.

      – Earth, Wind and Fire

      Nov 1, 2009 at 11:25 pm   rating: 34  small thumbs up

  • #6   Andre

    That is…well, it’s gorram creepy is what it is.

    Nov 1, 2009 at 5:04 pm   rating: 17  small thumbs up

    • #6.1   Kelly

      Mormons are generally pretty creepy.

      Nov 1, 2009 at 5:32 pm   rating: 40  small thumbs up

    • #6.2   kd

      Hey… I’m LDS and living in Utah (against my will, maybe, but I’m still here) and there’s no way on EARTH I’d send a nut-job note like this. There really are a couple of us who still recognize boundaries.

      Nov 1, 2009 at 9:21 pm   rating: 40  small thumbs up

    • #6.3   Terran Nytefyer

      With the use of ‘gorram’, I believe I smell a Browncoat?

      Nov 2, 2009 at 12:05 am   rating: 16  small thumbs up

    • #6.4   GK bang

      With your use of human words, I believe I smell a Homo sapiens?

      Nov 2, 2009 at 3:30 am   rating: 15  small thumbs up

    • #6.5   BlackMarketBeagle

      Browncoat? Where’s a Browncoat?

      Nov 2, 2009 at 2:45 pm   rating: 2  small thumbs up

  • #7   Annie

    Welcome to Mormon Utah.

    Nov 1, 2009 at 5:05 pm   rating: 17  small thumbs up

    • #7.1   Critical Grass bang

      Welcome to Moron Utah.

      Nov 1, 2009 at 5:12 pm   rating: 49  small thumbs up

    • #7.2   Neeners

      After marriage when you are horribly unhappy with the return missionary you got stuck with that your parents approved of, is the time to have sex and plenty of it to MAKE A LOT of future mormons. At least six is average. AVERAGE mind you, more are encouraged.

      Nov 1, 2009 at 6:39 pm   rating: 23  small thumbs up

    • #7.3   Neeners

      Oh yeah after that, after you try to find a home with at least 7 bedrooms, then you can buy that MAV (Mormon Assault Vehicle) or a huge Chevy Tahoe to drive to soccer games and church and clog up all the mall parking lots and highways. Not on Sundays though.

      Nov 1, 2009 at 6:41 pm   rating: 24  small thumbs up

    • #7.4   Neeners

      Hey, how do I know so much about this?

      Nov 1, 2009 at 6:42 pm   rating: 5  small thumbs up

    • #7.5   aging hipster

      Don’t forget the Mormon-sized trampoline for your 7 kids.

      Nov 1, 2009 at 7:08 pm   rating: 8  small thumbs up

    • #7.6   JetJackson

      I believe they call it a “Jumpoline” to cut out any reference to “tramp”… don’t want the kiddies getting any ideas..

      Nov 1, 2009 at 8:30 pm   rating: 52  small thumbs up

    • #7.7   Neeners

      No the real term is “babysitter”. The better moms have screens around theirs so their kids can’t get loose and run amok in the neighborhood.

      Nov 1, 2009 at 8:37 pm   rating: 18  small thumbs up

    • #7.8   mamason bang

      When my little one was a littler one of about 2 y o, he would call it a jumpoline. I thought it was so cute. ♥

      Nov 2, 2009 at 8:59 pm   rating: 4  small thumbs up

    • #7.9   Valpants

      This is exactly why I always do grocery shopping on sundays- I unfortunately live in provo and the stores are always empty except for a few bold sinners, it’s fantastic!

      Nov 3, 2009 at 1:05 am   rating: 14  small thumbs up

  • #8   Critical Grass bang

    I wonder if that letter had something to do with Liz getting married…

    Nov 1, 2009 at 5:10 pm   rating: 1  small thumbs up

  • #9   Robin

    Let me get this straight.

    The woman who got this note MARRIED the person who wrote it? Was the invitation to total subjugation just too much to resist?

    If I got this note, I’d run for the hills. How completely creepy that anonymous men think they have the right to comment on a woman’s behavior.

    Ew. That’s all I can say. Ew.

    Nov 1, 2009 at 5:14 pm   rating: 3  small thumbs up

    • #9.1   leftfoot

      Robin – No. The woman married the guy whose house she was staying the night at.

      Nov 1, 2009 at 5:15 pm   rating: 34  small thumbs up

    • #9.2   Critical Grass bang

      Ew, Robin. You got it all wrong. That’s all I can say. Ew.

      Nov 1, 2009 at 5:17 pm   rating: 41  small thumbs up

    • #9.3   Andre

      It would have been a more exciting story though. If this was a Hollywood blockbuster, you’d also need the quirky best friend, a lovable dog, and a gumpy, nosy old lady neighbour.

      Nov 1, 2009 at 5:25 pm   rating: 18  small thumbs up

    • #9.4   Neeners

      There is a big specialty movie market around here for mormons. Please don’t give them any more ideas.

      Nov 1, 2009 at 6:44 pm   rating: 12  small thumbs up

  • #10   UnclGhost

    Innappropriate? Meaning it would be appropriate at an inn?

    Nov 1, 2009 at 5:18 pm   rating: 22  small thumbs up

    • #10.1   Neeners

      It’s only appropriate if nobody knows about it.

      Nov 1, 2009 at 6:45 pm   rating: 7  small thumbs up

    • #10.2   Neeners

      Hey, gotta give her a break on the spelling. She goes to BYU but doesn’t have time to study because she’s too busy spying on sinful neighbors all night.

      Nov 1, 2009 at 8:57 pm   rating: 39  small thumbs up

    • #10.3   Flaboy2425

      If she goes to BYU, she needs to take printing 101 and learn how to make it legible.

      She should also take self control 101 if she knows she’s being nosy and still leaves the note.

      No wonder our education system has such a bad reputation.

      Nov 1, 2009 at 11:28 pm   rating: 7  small thumbs up

  • #11   Me

    I guess it’s creepy, but it’s Utah, so whatever. My reaction to this was totally “Awww… What a great thing to have framed in your (marital) home! I wish I had a memento like that!”

    Nov 1, 2009 at 5:24 pm   rating: 50  small thumbs up

    • #11.1   Critical Grass bang

      Me too.

      Nov 1, 2009 at 5:40 pm   rating: 3  small thumbs up

    • #11.2   mamason bang

      Look how well your sinful fornication turned out! Happy anniversary!

      P.S. How are your bastard children?

      Nov 2, 2009 at 9:05 pm   rating: 13  small thumbs up

  • #12   Palomon bang

    I get that the gal receiving the note married the guy mentioned.
    I get that the person who wrote it (looks like girls’ handwriting) is off her gourd.
    Who or what is King Henry? is it a hotel? A church? Strip club?

    Nov 1, 2009 at 5:46 pm   rating: 7  small thumbs up

    • #12.1   Sara

      I Googled King Henry, and it turns out it’s an off-campus apartment complex for BYU students. Can’t get much more Mormon than that!

      Nov 1, 2009 at 5:54 pm   rating: 5  small thumbs up

    • #12.2   bellybionic

      King Henry is an apartment building in Provo, most of the residents are BYU students.

      Nov 1, 2009 at 6:01 pm   rating: 4  small thumbs up

    • #12.3   Palomon bang

      Thanks belly, thanks Sara. Gotta admit, dive bar or strip club would’ve been more interesting. Still- appreciate the research. Followed the link and y’know, nice apartments. Lots of activities! You’d think these kids’d have better things to do than stalk.

      Nov 1, 2009 at 11:36 pm   rating: 10  small thumbs up

    • #12.4   jeni

      Judging by the list of “how to clean and what to use to clean” provided by building management, I think all common sense must be lost on these people.

      Nov 2, 2009 at 8:46 am   rating: 8  small thumbs up

    • #12.5   Peurt

      Something named after King Henry in Utah? Oh, the delicious irony of it all!

      “It’s like ray-a-ain, on your wedding day
      King Hen-reeeee, lost in Yooo-tay…”

      Nov 2, 2009 at 4:50 pm   rating: 5  small thumbs up

  • #13   bellybionic

    I would be a lot more shocked by this note if I wasn’t from Utah. It really could have been so much worse.

    Nov 1, 2009 at 5:54 pm   rating: 14  small thumbs up

    • #13.1   Neeners

      I know she could have accidentally addressed it to the man who just happened to be the bishop of her ward. LOL!

      Nov 1, 2009 at 6:14 pm   rating: 6  small thumbs up

  • #14   Narwhal

    How young must they be? “boys”

    Nov 1, 2009 at 6:00 pm   rating: 3  small thumbs up

  • #15   Maas

    I take it she’s aiming for the word “obvious”, but I read, “it’s devious that you sleep over there b/c your car is parked at King Henry all night”. Also, in a letter, isn’t is quicker to write “at” than “@” as well as using about the same amount of space and ink)?

    Nov 1, 2009 at 6:05 pm   rating: 9  small thumbs up

  • #16   Stephanie

    Why are they complaining? She’s coming back regularly, imagine if they caught someone having a one night stand? They belt her with bibles ’til she was bloodied.

    Nov 1, 2009 at 6:07 pm   rating: 19  small thumbs up

    • #16.1   Neeners

      Uh, that would be “Book of Mormon” bloody belting now. They have three books of scripture so the girl hasn’t a chance of survival after being “stoned” with Bibles, Books of Mormon, Doctrine and Covenants, and about a hundred CTR rings.
      CTR standing for “Choose the Right”.

      Nov 1, 2009 at 6:33 pm   rating: 14  small thumbs up

    • #16.2   Beanster

      is that like WWJD? because CTR/Choose the Right rolls of the tongue way more easily.

      that’s it. I’m converting.

      Nov 1, 2009 at 9:26 pm   rating: 17  small thumbs up

    • #16.3   Halley

      some of the more subversive shops in SLC have CTL rings; Choose the Left. They have the exact same shield sign and all. It’s the little things. . .

      Nov 2, 2009 at 12:50 am   rating: 9  small thumbs up

    • #16.4   spottedbuddy

      16.2 Beanster: Yes, yes it is like WWJD.

      Whom would Jesus deck?

      Nov 2, 2009 at 1:14 am   rating: 3  small thumbs up

    • #16.5   aaa bang

      Pfft. Jesus is too cool to deck people. He’d get people to do it for him.

      Nov 2, 2009 at 1:40 am   rating: 14  small thumbs up

    • #16.6   Neeners

      16.3 How ’bout CTN – choose the naughty? Some friends of mine I work with made those rings. That way you don’t have to be truly evil and can still have a little fun.

      Nov 2, 2009 at 9:56 am   rating: 3  small thumbs up

    • #16.7   Sirius¤ bang

      I always thought it meant Clean The Refrigerator.

      Nov 2, 2009 at 10:30 am   rating: 16  small thumbs up

    • #16.8   Swwoodsy

      I am reminded of the Kinky Friedman & The Texas Jewboys song “They Ain’t Making Jews Like Jesus Anymore.” A true classic.

      I am so glad I do not live anywhere like Utah. I would be stoned to death as an impious, impertinent heretic in a matter of moments. Those people need to get a life and to mind their own damn business.

      The note is great, though.

      Nov 2, 2009 at 2:24 pm   rating: 6  small thumbs up

    • #16.9   Canthz_B bang

      HA! New meaning for “The Bible Belt”!

      Beavers still have pelts though, right?

      Wrong day to bring up beavers, huh?

      Nov 2, 2009 at 8:16 pm   rating: 2  small thumbs up

  • #17   diana

    Oh yeah, it is the LDS sisters patrol trying to save poor Liz from ruins. A little talking to would definitely be the mormon obligation.

    Nov 1, 2009 at 6:13 pm   rating: 13  small thumbs up

    • #17.1   Neeners

      Maybe they could discuss chastity issues next Sunday at Relief Society over red punch and green jello salad. Nothing too embarrassing just a group of 25 to 30 and of course a little gossip over the phone about it to all the other sisters in the area after the 3 hour session of church.

      Nov 1, 2009 at 6:17 pm   rating: 5  small thumbs up

  • #18   ClearlyDemented

    But it’s not inappropriate to point out what you feel is some stranger’s inappropriateness, when they obviously don’t feel the same? I don’t care what the experts say, religious women have balls.

    Nov 1, 2009 at 6:19 pm   rating: 16  small thumbs up

    • #18.1   Mamie

      Yeah, it must be so hard to be Mormon in Utah.

      Nov 1, 2009 at 6:26 pm   rating: 29  small thumbs up

  • #19   Neeners

    Total obsessed stalker here. So repressed she (assuming it’s a chick, even Mormon guys give each other kudos right – nobody’s perfect) has her binoculars trained on that car several times a night and possibly a video cam set up.

    “Ummm, you don’t know me but I have been watching your every move. I noticed where you go, into that man’s apartment. After scaling the wall several times and peeking through the crack in the curtains, although I haven’t really seen anything, I must confess, I am sure you have given your ‘precious gift’ away. I don’t want to say anything about your problem but you really should fix it.”

    How about seeing a freaking mental health professional freak. It’s nunya biznatch!!!!

    Nov 1, 2009 at 6:22 pm   rating: 43  small thumbs up

  • #20   Neeners

    She and her roommates are just jealous they aren’t getting any. They must wait for their missionaries to return home and marry them before they do ‘the nastay’. More often than not though this is NOT the case. Most everyone is working it people behind closed doors. Don’t lie to yourself miss note writer.

    Nov 1, 2009 at 6:26 pm   rating: 12  small thumbs up

    • #20.1   Amanda

      I waited til I was married to do anything, but that was a personal choice, and I certainly wouldn’t be spying on other people and writing them notes if they didn’t choose the same thing! There’s being a good Mormon/Christian/whatever, and then there’s just being plain nosy…

      Nov 2, 2009 at 12:13 pm   rating: 12  small thumbs up

  • #21   Critical Grass bang

    After that note Liz should have let the blinds open. Just for kicks, you know.

    Nov 1, 2009 at 6:26 pm   rating: 26  small thumbs up

    • #21.1   JetJackson

      Or in the back seat at the King Henry car park…

      Nov 1, 2009 at 9:12 pm   rating: 2  small thumbs up

  • #22   Sara

    Well, she does show some insight near the end, saying she feels like she should talk to someone about this problem – I’m assuming she means seeking professional help for her *stalking* problem, and not the problem that she doesn’t agree with decisions made by total strangers who happen to reside in proximity to her.

    Nov 1, 2009 at 6:29 pm   rating: 7  small thumbs up

  • #23   Nylund

    Obviously, the lesson learned is that in Utah, right after you finish doing the deed, the proper thing to do is hand the girl her stuff and tell her to out immediately. Its the classy thing to do.

    Nov 1, 2009 at 6:31 pm   rating: 43  small thumbs up

    • #23.1   Geek Goddess

      And if she did it well, a tip on top of the regular rate is always welcome.

      Nov 1, 2009 at 9:22 pm   rating: 11  small thumbs up

  • #24   G

    I was impressed that there was a whole set of roommates so repressed, immature, and morally outraged by this behavior (not just one loony, but several!)

    I suppose the “Utah” bit does go to explain it somewhat, but even so. One loony can generally be explained by the Loony Conservation Principle (“there’s always one, isn’t there”) but generally that loony is merely tolerated by those nearby–if that.

    To find a nest of them, all in agreement no less, seems more like a Steve Irwin escapade.

    Nov 1, 2009 at 6:42 pm   rating: 14  small thumbs up

    • #24.1   JetJackson

      Now watch me jam my thumb up their bung holes and really piss em off!!

      Nov 1, 2009 at 9:17 pm   rating: 12  small thumbs up

    • #24.2   Amanda

      You know, if someone thinks that kind of behaviour is wrong, that doesn’t necessarily make them a loony. Writing a note like that, however, does.

      Nov 2, 2009 at 2:51 pm   rating: 17  small thumbs up

    • #24.3   Nunya Bizness

      Actually, Amanda, it does. People fuck. Get over it.

      Nov 2, 2009 at 4:14 pm   rating: 30  small thumbs up

    • #24.4   mamason bang

      More tolerence from the left, eh? Because if you have beliefs that differ from mine then you are clearly crazy.

      Nov 2, 2009 at 9:28 pm   rating: 14  small thumbs up

  • #25   kalieris

    *Crosses Utah off the list of places I am ever going to live. Ever.*

    Nov 1, 2009 at 7:06 pm   rating: 38  small thumbs up

    • #25.1   Neeners

      Don’t say that you can still visit, it has beautiful scenery and killer slopes. There are some good points and people but man, it’s hard to get a drink around here.

      Nov 1, 2009 at 8:40 pm   rating: 4  small thumbs up

    • #25.2   Critical Grass bang

      So, no drinks… But you guys still have prostitutes and cocain, right?

      Nov 1, 2009 at 9:36 pm   rating: 14  small thumbs up

    • #25.3   beth

      Don’t kid yourself, SLC and the surrounding areas have some of the worst air quality in the country. Inversion and particulates = cancer and heart disease, yay! Also, Utah sucks. I’m finally leaving and I cannot WAIT.

      Nov 1, 2009 at 10:25 pm   rating: 7  small thumbs up

    • #25.4   aaa bang


      Nov 2, 2009 at 1:48 am   rating: 22  small thumbs up

    • #25.5   Canthz_B bang


      Nov 2, 2009 at 4:49 am   rating: 8  small thumbs up

    • #25.6   Neeners

      25.3 Take me with you! Please….. Please….. Please…. I miss my Pacific Northwest.
      I’ve been deluding myself. (Heavy sobs)

      Nov 2, 2009 at 9:59 am   rating: 8  small thumbs up

    • #25.7   GK bang


      Nov 2, 2009 at 10:11 am   rating: 29  small thumbs up

    • #25.8   Critical Grass bang

      Oh CB, I completely understand what you’re saying… Actually, we only have two seasons here: HOT and NOT-SO-HOT.

      Nov 2, 2009 at 11:05 am   rating: 3  small thumbs up

    • #25.9   Beanster bang


      Nov 2, 2009 at 12:35 pm   rating: 8  small thumbs up

    • #25.10   infant tyrone bang

      Come to England…King Henry just wants to get off with a little head…
      but not ’til we’re married…

      Nov 2, 2009 at 5:33 pm   rating: 5  small thumbs up

  • #26   Chinchillazilla

    “I can’t help but notice you’re a whore. Cut it out or I’ll wear your face.”

    Nov 1, 2009 at 7:31 pm   rating: 29  small thumbs up

    • #26.1   Neeners

      Watch it Buffalo Bill! (It puts the lotion on its skin!!)

      Nov 1, 2009 at 8:41 pm   rating: 6  small thumbs up

    • #26.2   Critical Grass bang

      Or else it gets the hose again!

      Nov 1, 2009 at 9:38 pm   rating: 6  small thumbs up

  • #27   Don Gwinn

    I’m not buying the “roommates” claim, actually. Notice how she crossed out “I” right before “my roommates and I”? She just thought it sounded less crazy if she had some public opinion on her side.

    Nov 1, 2009 at 7:54 pm   rating: 28  small thumbs up

    • #27.1   oi bang

      oh hello!!? Remember, we are talking Utah here!!

      Nov 1, 2009 at 8:19 pm   rating: 3  small thumbs up

    • #27.2   Critical Grass bang

      Utah is really that bad, huh?

      Nov 1, 2009 at 9:39 pm   rating: 6  small thumbs up

  • #28   Woman on the Verge bang

    I have to say, I think you are all missing the point. It isn’t the sweet illicit sex that they object to. It’s parking overnight in the King Henry Lot without the appropriate parking permit. Damn parking lot monitoring Mormons.

    Nov 1, 2009 at 8:02 pm   rating: 47  small thumbs up

    • #28.1   Julie

      hahahaha you are SO RIGHT. If you’ve lived in Provo, like I unfortunately did for 5 years, you can vouch for this.
      However, if she didn’t have the correct parking permit, she would’ve gotten towed. So she must have just been parking on the street or something.
      This REALLY makes me miss Provo. (Please note the sarcasm.) It is none of their damn business what this couple does!

      Nov 1, 2009 at 8:19 pm   rating: 4  small thumbs up

    • #28.2   Neeners

      Maybe she stole her primo parking spot and was getting lucky and this was just too much. She shouldn’t be rewarded twice dammit!

      Nov 1, 2009 at 8:46 pm   rating: 7  small thumbs up

    • #28.3   Canthz_B bang

      Julie, what made you Miss Provo was the talent competition.
      I don’t think the thing with the ping-pong balls went over with that crowd, but what you did with that cigar was too awesome to not vote for.

      Nov 1, 2009 at 11:52 pm   rating: 20  small thumbs up

    • #28.4   Critical Grass bang

      Is Miss Provo anything like Miss Place?

      Nov 2, 2009 at 4:07 pm   rating: 0  small thumbs up

  • #29   Wade bang

    Then again, perhaps we should take the PAN Goddess’ lead and look to another Henry:

    This PA Note shall the good Liz post online;
    And an anniversary shall ne’er go by,
    From this day to the ending of the world,
    But we in it shall be remembered-
    We few, we nosy few, we band of bitches.

    Nov 1, 2009 at 8:24 pm   rating: 33  small thumbs up

    • #29.1   Critical Grass bang

      Wade, you’re getting thumbed.

      Nov 1, 2009 at 9:44 pm   rating: 0  small thumbs up

    • #29.2   JetJackson

      As in Steve Irwin thumbed?

      Nov 1, 2009 at 11:06 pm   rating: 3  small thumbs up

    • #29.3   anglophile bang

      I can just hear Liz’s future husband shouting, “Once more unto the breach!”

      Maybe that’s what got the roommates so riled up.

      Nov 2, 2009 at 2:51 pm   rating: 15  small thumbs up

  • #30   JetJackson

    God Bless Utah!

    If it wasn’t for rebellious morman girls with a need to liberate themselves from the religion they were indoctrinated with… well I would have had a lot less fun on my gap year.

    Nov 1, 2009 at 8:43 pm   rating: 21  small thumbs up

  • #31   gat

    And this, my friends, is why I only lived in Provo for 3 months.

    Nov 1, 2009 at 9:39 pm   rating: 3  small thumbs up

  • #32   Me

    Reading this entry and the comments is so much fun when you’re a Jack Mormon.

    Nov 1, 2009 at 10:29 pm   rating: 7  small thumbs up

    • #32.1   Beanster bang

      does that mean bad mormon?
      im collecting all the knowledge i can get so when i convert i won’t seem like a newb.

      Nov 2, 2009 at 12:37 pm   rating: 2  small thumbs up

    • #32.2   Critical Grass bang

      So you’re really serious about converting, huh?

      Nov 2, 2009 at 4:10 pm   rating: 0  small thumbs up

    • #32.3   Me

      A Jack Mormon is a Mormon who isn’t really a Mormon, much like a jackrabbit isn’t really a rabbit (I am not responsible for making this term up, by the way). Usually used to refer to lapsed/inactive (but not excommunicated) LDS.

      I’m toying with the idea of getting myself excommunicated someday.

      Nov 2, 2009 at 10:51 pm   rating: 4  small thumbs up

  • #33   aaa bang

    No, no it isn’t any of your business. Now go choke and die while I fuck my boyfriend.

    Nov 1, 2009 at 10:51 pm   rating: 6  small thumbs up

  • #34   Adam

    This is what you get for living in a monarchy.

    Nov 1, 2009 at 11:00 pm   rating: 7  small thumbs up

  • #35   pony girl

    I found a note on my windshield once (wish I’d kept it) but I knew who the note was from, so I was able to leave her a note.

    In this situation in Utah. I would put a big ass sign in my dash everytime I parked there. Something along the lines of “mind your own fking business”
    Not witty, but succint.

    ps-the note i got was from a woman who had a problem with my parking in front of her house. (on a public street) had a standing appointment, and parked there for 2 hours once a week.
    well actually, parked on her street. only parked in front of her house a few times. (until I got the note, then I made a point to park there, even when I was able to find a spot closer)

    Nov 1, 2009 at 11:13 pm   rating: 14  small thumbs up

    • #35.1   Neeners

      You’ll notice that although Miss BYU has plenty to be irate about, yet she can’t stand behind what she has written due to cowardice by putting a room # down or name. Typical.

      Nov 2, 2009 at 10:06 am   rating: 6  small thumbs up

  • #36   Havingfitz

    What I would have done after receiving is have one of my male friends show up in glittery make-up and hot-pink tights and spend the night. Maybe I’d pay him a bit extra to knock on nosy-neighbor’s door ask ask if “they’d be darlings and lend him some whipped cream. Silly little me, walked right out without it.”

    Nov 1, 2009 at 11:19 pm   rating: 24  small thumbs up

  • #37   Canthz_B bang

    Wow, try to be a good supportive Mormon fiancé, stay up all night helping your husband-to-be study so you can get married after he graduates and some nosy prude with her mind in the gutter labels you a slut.

    I’ll bet the note writer has since moved to Promontory because of the excellent view.

    Nov 1, 2009 at 11:40 pm   rating: 25  small thumbs up

  • #38   Canthz_B bang

    I like how Gladys Kravitz here just happens to be up late at night to see (watch) this woman go to apt. 306, then up bright and early enough to just happen to sometimes (if you’d just leave at the same time every day, she’d know exactly when to press her nose to her window pane) see her coming out in the morning.

    I mean, talk about nutty coincidences!

    Nov 1, 2009 at 11:59 pm   rating: 8  small thumbs up

    • #38.1   Neeners

      Maybe if Abner was giving her a little she wouldn’t be interested in what Samantha….I mean #306 is doing.

      Nov 2, 2009 at 10:08 am   rating: 2  small thumbs up

  • #39   Canthz_B bang

    I think this was a completely appropriate note for the writer to leave.

    This is exactly the point of view that should be encouraged in 12 year-old girls.
    “Staying @ a boy’s house all night is inappropriate, Sweetie. That’s Daddy’s good girl. Save it for after the honeymoon so Daddy can supervise!!”

    Nov 2, 2009 at 12:07 am   rating: 6  small thumbs up

  • #40   Grace

    That is priceless! Classic Utah Mormon crap!

    My sister went to BYU, and I intentionally went to Utah State to avoid the Provo madness, but this is pretty typical for Utah Mormons. I’m so, so, so, so happy that I don’t live in Utah anymore!

    Although I have to admit that one of my former roommates would definitely have done something like this! LOL

    Nov 2, 2009 at 12:50 am   rating: 3  small thumbs up

  • #41   Autumn

    We all sign a honor code at BYU and you have to live in BYU contracted housing to be a BYU student. When we do that we acknowledge our school standing as well as others can be effected by our willingness to maintain our housing contracts that follow the BYU honor code. I wouldn’t go out of my way to leave the note if they weren’t my room mates…but I’ve had this situation with my room mates and I definitely reported them because it was selfish of them and putting my schooling at stake.

    Nov 2, 2009 at 1:07 am   rating: 3  small thumbs up

    • #41.1   aaa bang

      It seems you’re confusing roommate issues with fucking your boy/girlfriend issues. Your roommates would be rude if they had a platonic friend over all night making noise. I didn’t mind my one douchey ex-roommate having her boyfriend overnight because they didn’t fuck when everyone was trying to sleep/other people were in the apartment (Three people sharing one bedroom. Yeah.) and he was quiet (He’s actually a very nice person and I’m pretty sure he’s not dating Douchey Ex-Roommate anymore.). I was beyond fucking pissed when my other douchey ex-roommate had a friend over at two am to “work on homework” (i.e. giggle and shit all night) and refused to shut the fuck up when I was trying to sleep.

      I have to say, I’m glad I’m going to a Jesuit university. Granted, they take the “love everyone and everything and help out everyone or else” thing a bit too far sometimes, but least I’ll only get a nasty note if I masturbate with the blinds open. (We’ll always remember you, Masturbation Boy!)

      P.S. Honor is for chumps. I punched a Klingon in the junk and ran away quickly over that one.

      Nov 2, 2009 at 1:26 am   rating: 22  small thumbs up

    • #41.2   spottedbuddy

      You would seriously be at risk of expulsion for not reporting two consenting adults doing something that hurts no one and damages no property?

      I’m asking that sincerely, not challenging you.
      And I’m also assuming that your roommates weren’t going at it with you right there in the tiny room.

      Nov 2, 2009 at 1:30 am   rating: 18  small thumbs up

    • #41.3   That Pam

      I graduated from BYU a few years ago. As far as I know and can read, there aren’t any actual punishments for not reporting somebody else. But please keep in mind, the reason things do get reported and it’s enforced by the school is because all BYU students signed a contract. The Honor Code is a legally binding document, and to even apply to the school you agree to live by it. All students, even those who aren’t Mormon (and there are more than you’d think) sign it. And as a note, it’s not just sex and drugs and drinking and all that. It’s also about not cheating, not plagiarizing, and things like that.

      And before I get pounced on, yeah, the note is way stalker-y. If you don’t know any of the parties involved, sometimes you have to just sit back and say, “I hope that’s not what I think it is, and if it is it’s not my place in this instance.”

      Nov 2, 2009 at 2:20 am   rating: 13  small thumbs up

    • #41.4   Canthz_B bang

      Not that I really care about BYU’s Honor Code, and I’m really not pouncing on That Pam, but not cheating, not plagiarizing, and things like that actually pertain to acquiring a legitimate education.
      The other things are much more personal in nature, and to hold a 21 year-old to a contract regarding personal conduct they signed when they were 18 is silly (I feel the same way about the Service Academies, so don’t snap. It’s not about the Mormons). To hold them to one they signed when they were 17 is illegal.

      Nov 2, 2009 at 4:08 am   rating: 10  small thumbs up

    • #41.5   Canthz_B bang

      Autumn, what puts your school’s (standing?) reputation at stake is when one of its students writes “a honor” and ” can be effected by”.
      Not by a few of them having a few drinks and, dare I say it, making love.

      See no evil. Hear no evil. Speak no evil.
      Unless you’ve signed an Honor Code contract. In which case, look for evil, listen for evil and tell someone all about it.

      (Mind your wants, because someone wants your mind.
      – Funkadelic)


      Nov 2, 2009 at 4:16 am   rating: 32  small thumbs up

    • #41.6   GK bang

      Back when I was in university, class attendance (not to mention attentiveness of the class) would have been greatly improved if half of them hadn’t been sleeping off the previous night’s drunken ordeal (variously: in their bed, in somebody else’s bed, or in the lecture theatre). I’d say that’s relevant enough to their education to make such a concept valid.

      And, hell, is somebody forcing them to go to this particular university? There are plenty who don’t have any sort of contract, presumably. If you’re “grown-up” enough for drunken debauchery, you’re old enough to go live in a student flat somewhere like every other asshole!

      Nov 2, 2009 at 9:32 am   rating: 8  small thumbs up

    • #41.7   oi bang

      but I thought college life is not real. you get to drink, fuck and “experiment” all you want just like life in video game??!! Nobody gives shit about morals and contracts and blah!

      Nov 2, 2009 at 9:35 am   rating: 5  small thumbs up

    • #41.8   GK bang

      Maybe in your English Literature course, oi, but some of us actually had to work to get a degree. :o)

      Nov 2, 2009 at 9:54 am   rating: 2  small thumbs up

    • #41.9   GK bang

      Wow, thanks for destroying my clown-nose smiley, comment software. Also, where’s me edit button gone this time?!

      Nov 2, 2009 at 9:55 am   rating: 0  small thumbs up

    • #41.10   oi bang

      well that’s what happens to an old grouchy English professor. He gets surprise of life every time he gets locked in men’s room after the break. sigh! You’d think after the tenth time…

      Nov 2, 2009 at 10:02 am   rating: 5  small thumbs up

    • #41.11   Neeners

      It all sounds so honorable. Especially the part about the contract. So, if you make a mistake, since it’s a legally binding contract do you get thrown in the pokey? Or worse socially ostracized by those who are probably doing worse things in their spare time.

      Nov 2, 2009 at 10:16 am   rating: 2  small thumbs up

    • #41.12   Autumn

      BYU is a private university, they can enforce of their students what they like, but as mentioned before the honor code is a legally binding statement. Since the university requires renewed ecclesiastical endorsement, their continued renewal in contract in housing and the university would be pending or end in expulsion since they should not actually be having pre-martial sex before marriage.

      It’s easy to say “Oh, that’s harsh” or “Wow, what prudes.” But I believe most students are fully aware of the honor code and what it asks before we come to BYU, even if they are unaware of the gender curfew restrictions.

      We are even asked to sign and review it with an ecclestical leader before registering for classes EVERY semester. Every student HAS to sign the BYU Honor code before being able to sign up for classes every semester so it’s not like these people didn’t know about the curfew for gendered people.

      I’ll agree, I think it’s weird someone who anonymously signed a note put it on her car. I think it’s tacky to write something like that and anonymously sign it, but at the same time as a room mate of people who have done stuff like that I would totally report it and I have after telling them I would do so if the action did not stop.

      It’s easy for them to look like the martyr in this situation, but in reality, they really just shouldn’t go to BYU if they don’t feel like following the rules that we are all well-aware of when we are registering for classes and signing contracts saying we will follow the honor code for our apartments as well.

      Nov 2, 2009 at 11:06 am   rating: 7  small thumbs up

    • #41.13   GK bang

      I hope you’re not studying English. Your comment made me feel seasick!

      Nov 2, 2009 at 11:09 am   rating: 9  small thumbs up

    • #41.14   Car RamRod

      @Autumn: I understand the idea of an honor code and what it entails. However, I feel expelling an otherwise good student due to their sexual proclivities to be at the very least outdated, and at worst draconian. You say it’s a private university, run by mormons, so everyone should have to submit to mormon doctrine? Well, they seem more than happy to take tuition payments from non-mormons. Likewise, they have a decent football team, so I am assuming they give scholarships to non-mormons based solely on athletic ability. Therefore, if they are willing to invite non-mormon students to attend their school, they can’t be surprised if not everyone wants to remain chaste during what are supposed to be the exploratory years of their life. If you chose to live by the honor code, then more power to you. But, I find it deplorable you openly admit to dropping a dime on your classmates for things they did on their own time that harmed no one. If you got even one of those kids expelled, you should be ashamed of yourself.

      @Canthz: About the service academies… I’m pretty sure there’s no obligation to serve as an officer in the military, provided you transfer/drop out before your junior or senior year(I forget which one). They give you the option to waive your commission.

      Nov 2, 2009 at 12:12 pm   rating: 17  small thumbs up

    • #41.15   Autumn

      @ Car RamRod

      If it’s old and archaic, why come here? I know several non-members who go here. I’ve gone to mass with them before and they still are obliged to follow the honor code in their housing. They aren’t required to be LDS, but they are asked to sign the honor code as well as get an ecclesiastical endorsement from their own religious leader. I know of several people who are Hindu here as well and they don’t have problems following it either.

      It may surprise you to know that I’ve lived with several people who actually aren’t BYU students but live in BYU-housing solely so they can have an atmosphere that is chaste.

      This person who gave them the note didn’t really have any decency and besides that it’s anonymous which is tacky. I’ve recognized that in each of my sentiments.

      I haven’t gotten any one expelled, but I have talked to my room mates about the uncomfortable situations I have walked in on
      them, I explained I realize people make mistakes, but to please not let it happen again. After it became obvious that it was a continuous problem week after week I talked to them again and told them I would later report them if it didn’t stop. I don’t really think that’s tacky as much as it’s blunt and honest. They weren’t expelled, infact, when confronted they lied about it actually. Sadly, the thing with an honor system is it is only as good as the people willing to uphold it.

      On that sentiment, what holds do our contracts and statements say if they are not upheld? Are contracts archaic entirely? People make mistakes, I’m aware, but if there is a repeated acknowledgement of it and it goes on and on and on it’s not really a mistake. We all know what we are signing when we get into it.

      Nov 2, 2009 at 12:54 pm   rating: 7  small thumbs up

    • #41.16   Critical Grass bang

      I think what Autumn is trying to say is this:
      “We use words like honor, code, loyalty. We use then as the backbone of a life trying to defend something. You use them as a punchline. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said “thank you,” and went on your way.”

      Oh, and Autumn is a great name, btw.

      Nov 2, 2009 at 12:55 pm   rating: 11  small thumbs up

    • #41.17   Emily Michelle

      The point of the matter is that this submitter was attending a private religious university where she was perfectly aware of and had signed an agreement promising to obey certain rules, and she broke those rules. If I work at a private company and sign a contract at the beginning of my employment wherein I promise not to do certain things, I don’t have any right to get upset if I get in trouble in the future for going against what I promised in that contract. There’s no difference here. No one made her go there, but she chose to and that choice requires certain behavior from her.

      And Autumn, good for you for honoring your word.

      Nov 2, 2009 at 1:03 pm   rating: 7  small thumbs up

    • #41.18   Wade bang

      Here’s my question: Why was the note put on the young lady’s car, instead of slipped under the young gentleman’s apartment door?

      I mean, nothing I have seen so far has shown the note receiver to be a BYU student. Presumably, the apartment-dweller would be the one in violation, though now Autumn tells us that non-BYU students can be residents! So do non-BYU students have to ascribe the honor code as well?

      What started as an nosy note has deepened into a tangled welter of sex, mystery and religious intrigue. Can Dan Brown be far behind?

      Nov 2, 2009 at 1:11 pm   rating: 28  small thumbs up

    • #41.19   Autumn

      @ Wade

      If you live in BYU contracted housing, you sign the honor code. That is how the housing receives the endorsement. Continued and repeated blatantacy for the housing can put the BYU endorsment on that housing in the gutter.

      On one hand, I totally agree that it should have been given to the young man who lived in the apartment …. on the other I think it should have just been addressed to the person so they weren’t a creeper.

      On the other hand, it shouldn’t have been happening at all….

      Nov 2, 2009 at 1:14 pm   rating: 3  small thumbs up

    • #41.20   Wade bang

      Wait. How many hands do you have, Autumn? ;)

      Nov 2, 2009 at 1:23 pm   rating: 11  small thumbs up

    • #41.21   oi bang

      ” I know of several people who are Hindu here as well and they don’t have problems following it either”
      And Hindus do not go proselytizing every house in neighborhood either.

      Nov 2, 2009 at 1:24 pm   rating: 15  small thumbs up

    • #41.22   Mo® bang

      We live in a world that has walls and those walls need to be guarded by men with guns. Who’s gonna do it? You? My existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, saves lives. You don’t want the truth because deep down in places you don’t talk about at parties you want me on that wall, you need me on that wall.

      Nov 2, 2009 at 1:30 pm   rating: 4  small thumbs up

    • #41.23   Critical Grass bang

      You want the truth?! YOU CANT HANDLE THE TRUTH!

      Great movie.

      Nov 2, 2009 at 1:53 pm   rating: 2  small thumbs up

    • #41.24   Car RamRod

      What I find interesting is that we as a country tolerate this sort of nonsense just because it happens to have been around for a while. Can you imagine the public outcry if some college’s honor code required women to wear burkas whenever in the presence of men? It’s arguably just as valid religiously(in other words, ludicrous), but I can only imagine the shitstorm that would ensue. Now I’m not debating which religion is better, I think anyone who takes any form of monotheism too seriously is a nut, I’m just remarking how interesting it is that our society kind of turns the other cheek as it were to the strange nuances of a fairly recent offshoot of christianity, but shuns the practices of an older offshoot…

      Nov 2, 2009 at 2:31 pm   rating: 11  small thumbs up

    • #41.25   aaa bang


      Nov 2, 2009 at 2:58 pm   rating: 10  small thumbs up

    • #41.26   anglophile bang

      I have two things to add to this debate:

      1. It’s really not all that hard to go your entire college career without having sex.


      2. Roommates is one word, and I expect anyone who is pursuing a higher education to know that.

      Nov 2, 2009 at 3:03 pm   rating: 20  small thumbs up

    • #41.27   Critical Grass bang

      Sometimes people take themselves too seriously. That’s kinda sad, really…

      Nov 2, 2009 at 4:21 pm   rating: 1  small thumbs up

    • #41.28   Canthz_B bang

      Car RamRod, I was only referring to Honor Code contracts. I don’t know anything about obligation to serve in the military…but that wasn’t the subject, so it’s all good. ;-)

      Autumn, you say they shouldn’t have premarital sex before marriage? Is premarital sex after marriage ok?

      I think BYU has lowered its admissions requirements. :-(

      Nov 2, 2009 at 6:56 pm   rating: 6  small thumbs up

    • #41.29   Autumn

      @ Critical Grass and Emily Michelle – thanks.

      @ Wade. -hahaha whoopsie!

      @anglophile – I agree to point one and for two, thanks for the heads up.

      @ Canthz_B – The honor code definitely would say be as chaste as possible. I have had friends who have accidently messed up and still had really happy lives and resolved everything with their ecclesiastical leaders and were still happy students. People make mistakes.

      Although, I’m not sure what you mean by “Is premartial sex after marriage ok?” I think sex should only happen with your spouse after you get married, but that’s me and a lot of that is based on my personal views and what I have grown up with. It would definitely also be heavily biased on painful experiences I have seen my siblings go through during their wild years as well as religious views.

      Nov 2, 2009 at 7:20 pm   rating: 1  small thumbs up

    • #41.30   Canthz_B bang

      I have no problem with Honor Codes.
      I have no problem with people who sign them and break them.
      What rubs me the wrong way is people who get off on having the power to be able to run off and tell on other people.
      Reminds me of what I learned about Germany in the 1930′s. Any loser of a young man could get a brown shirt and jackboots and suddenly have the power of life and death over good, decent people.

      Giving such power to someone who clearly feels a sense of moral superiority is not necessarily an honorable thing to do.

      I mean damn! If walking in on someone being intimate makes you that uncomfortable, get thee to a nunnery.

      Nov 2, 2009 at 7:25 pm   rating: 10  small thumbs up

    • #41.31   Car RamRod

      Oh ok, I misunderstood. But even so, the military does indeed make you sign an honor code, even if you’re not attending an academy. However, it doesn’t keep you from having sex(unless it’s with someone under/above you in command for obvious reasons).

      On a side note, it does say some things about homosexual acts, and I forget the exact wording, but I remember when I signed up I was surprised to find that it makes certain allowances for that. I always thought the whole “don’t ask, don’t tell” thing was zero tolerance. But I remember the document saying something along the lines of making allowances for isolated incidents that didn’t seem like they would be repeated or something. It’s pretty ridiculous. Everyone knows there’s gays in the military. The only problem I see with Obama’s plan to do away with the policy is that prejudice exists amongst many members of the military, and I don’t think it would be in a gay person’s interest to come out of the closet, as it would create problems for them within their unit.

      Nov 2, 2009 at 7:26 pm   rating: 0  small thumbs up

    • #41.32   Car RamRod

      And I couldn’t agree with you more. If you really have a hardcore belief in some kind of honor code, then the whole idea of that code is for everyone to police themselves. No one appointed this person as the hall monitor/resident nazi.

      Nov 2, 2009 at 7:29 pm   rating: 11  small thumbs up

    • #41.33   Canthz_B bang

      Yeah, especially since her ass is so tight she can’t even recognize an obvious joke made at her expense.

      My feelings on Gays in the military aside, the fact that there is prejudice amongst the ranks is not a good enough reason to continue current or re-institute past policies.
      There’s still racism in the military, but we shouldn’t go back to a segregated system.
      And yes, I know the obvious differences, but the bottom line is you don’t get to choose with whom you serve. Personally, if I’m getting shot at I don’t care about the sexual orientation of the guy on the machine gun that’s covering my ass…I would care in the showers though.
      Not an easy thing to hash out, but I suspect someday we will.

      Nov 2, 2009 at 7:52 pm   rating: 4  small thumbs up

    • #41.34   Car RamRod

      I agree with you, it doesn’t really bother me if the guy I’m fighting with is gay. But like you pointed out, we do have to shower and change together. And even more intimately, when it’s cold out and you’re sleeping outside, it’s not unheard of to share a sleeping bag for survival’s sake. Now, I’m not a homophobe at all, but it might make me a bit uncomfortable if I was sharing a sleeping bag and my buddy got wood. Just saying…

      I don’t mind them doing away with the policy so that if a gay guy gets caught off duty in town with another man, they can’t just kick him out for that. But I’m just saying, I doubt most of them will come out anyway, just cause of the prejudice that exists.

      Nov 2, 2009 at 9:08 pm   rating: 5  small thumbs up

    • #41.35   park rose bang

      oi, at 41.21, and some Hindu gods have so many hands that they could help Autumn out at 41.19, right?

      Nov 2, 2009 at 9:38 pm   rating: 6  small thumbs up

    • #41.36   Canthz_B bang

      Car RamRod…it depends upon which spoon you are in the sleeping bag!
      That’s a situation in which I’d definitely have his back!! :-P

      Nov 2, 2009 at 11:23 pm   rating: 1  small thumbs up

    • #41.37   GK bang

      “Likewise, they have a decent football team, so I am assuming they give scholarships [...] based solely on athletic ability.”

      What I love about America is that one of you can make a comment like this and nobody bats an eyelid! I laughed so hard I damn near fell off my chair. :-P

      Nov 3, 2009 at 3:12 am   rating: 4  small thumbs up

    • #41.38   Canthz_B bang

      Oh, my eyes batted so furiously I damn near took flight, so I decided to sleep on it.
      It’s a good thing we elected a President solely based upon his basketball prowess, because we all know that blacks who play sports well cannot also be intelligent enough to qualify for an academic scholarship. :roll:

      Nov 3, 2009 at 7:38 am   rating: 1  small thumbs up

    • #41.39   anglophile bang

      Everyone knows the smart kids are uncoordinated wimps. My alma mater was known for its academics and its pitiful sports teams. We would chant in the stands as our team was being bloodied by OSU yet again: “That’s all right, that’s ok, you’ll all work for us someday.” That was before the hyper-politically correct administration forbid it, and also before they hired Gary Barnett as coach and finally got a winning season and a trip to the Rose Bowl.

      Nov 3, 2009 at 8:04 am   rating: 3  small thumbs up

    • #41.40   Canthz_B bang

      Well, I’ve gotta admit that “The Fighting Mensas” isn’t a very intimidating team name.

      I’ve always rooted for the sports teams of Smarter Than U. though. :-)

      Nov 3, 2009 at 8:26 am   rating: 3  small thumbs up

    • #41.41   park rose bang

      “The Fighting Menses”, however, is another matter. Screaming Harpies, anyone?

      Nov 3, 2009 at 8:26 am   rating: 9  small thumbs up

    • #41.42   Car RamRod

      First of all, what I really meant to get across there was that they are giving out athletic scholarships based on athletic ability, not worrying about the person’s academics or their being a mormon.

      I doubt alot of these colleges are taking academics into account when they give a scholarship to some 300lb behemoth to be their new star lineman. Now, not to say all good football players are dumb, cause obviously this is not true. However, consider the Ivy League. They haven’t been consistently in the top 20 for decades. The schools that are repeatedly at the top of the list, i.e. Florida, Alabama, Texas, LSU, etc. are football factories. The rest of the school may be a normal academic university. But if you’re good and you’re on the team, you’re getting an A in basket-weaving and a bachelors in communications, which you’re not doing shit with unless you make the NFL.

      @Canthz 41.38
      I think it’s ridiculous we even see the President making jumpshots on the 5 o clock news. It’s bad enough he makes a speech about something or other nearly every day, can’t we go a few hours without being inundated by his daily activities and photo-ops?

      Nov 3, 2009 at 2:14 pm   rating: 3  small thumbs up

    • #41.43   Canthz_B bang

      Maybe you haven’t seen the job description of “President”, but one of the responsibilities of the job is to communicate regularly with the American people…especially when a great many of them are having a hard time of things, or when very complex issues need clarification.
      What do you think Presidents/politicians do if not go around making speeches on something, somewhere almost every day? Where have you been?
      Would you rather have him do a Marie Antoinette impersonation and adopt a let them eat cake attitude towards the rank and file public?
      Do a George Bush and just keep telling us that the fundamentals of the economy are strong as the unemployment figures rise?

      Funny thing is, if he wasn’t out communicating, he’d be accused of having a “bunker mentality” while average Americans were hurting trying to get by.

      BTW, that wasn’t the Prez making the jump-shot in Iraq (Kuwait?)…that was a Candidate.
      What really cracks me up is when a bunch of news anchors and talk show hosts deride Mr. Obama’s use of the Tele-promter(sp?), as if he’s the only Pol to use one, all the while reading their commentary off of a tele-promter!
      It is to laugh.

      Nov 3, 2009 at 11:58 pm   rating: 2  small thumbs up

    • #41.44   Canthz_B bang

      You do realize that it’s only 9.5 months since the man took the oath of office, right.
      Hell, by this time in his 1st term, Dubya had already lost the World Trade Center Towers, Six World Trade and a good portion of the Pentagon. All that while he was sitting in a classroom reading to school children.
      But I forgot, people go bat-shit if the President speaks to children about the value of an education, right?

      Give Obama some time, maybe he can catch up to Dubya’s stunning pace of early success!

      “Inundated”? Really? Never seen all the film of Eisenhower playing golf? JFK sailing? Reagan on horseback? George W. “clearing brush”? Nixon lying? Carter lusting in his heart? Clinton…well, we don’t want film of that!
      Let me put it to you very simply.
      When things are going along just fine in this country, you hardly get any coverage of politics on your precious 5 ‘clock news…you get stories about celebrities having affairs, having babies or doing drugs.
      The reason you see so much coverage of the President on the news is that there is actual news that has to do with decisions and policies that the President has some impact upon.
      So, are you upset that the news is actually reporting real, public information-type news now instead of fluff?

      I’m sorry you feel that way…tune in to E! network.

      Nov 4, 2009 at 12:13 am   rating: 3  small thumbs up

    • #41.45   Canthz_B bang

      Ooops! Longer than I intended…my apologies. :oops:

      Nov 4, 2009 at 2:45 am   rating: 0  small thumbs up

    • #41.46   mamason bang

      I would like to see the Clinton vidoes. :-|

      Nov 5, 2009 at 1:16 am   rating: 0  small thumbs up

    • #41.47   Canthz_B bang

      mamason, I just happen to have—-Who is it? Secret who?

      Be right back…

      What can I do fo–HEY! LEMME GO!!

      Nov 5, 2009 at 1:37 am   rating: 3  small thumbs up

    • #41.48   mamason bang


      Nov 5, 2009 at 10:40 am   rating: 0  small thumbs up

    • #41.49   Bryan

      Sorry for joining in this conversation after its end, but I felt it necessary to point out an oversight. Canthz_B, the reason Autumn did not understand the redundancy joke you made regarding her comment was not because of her ignorance, but rather because you misread her comment to begin with. You see, Autumn’s comment was in protest of “pre-martial sex before marriage,” not “pre-marital sex before marriage.” It’s sex before fighting before marriage that she opposes–and I rather admire her stance against domestic abuse.

      Nov 12, 2009 at 10:08 am   rating: 6  small thumbs up

    • #41.50   Canthz_B bang

      Well-spotted. I’ll send her a nice card.

      Nov 12, 2009 at 12:58 pm   rating: 1  small thumbs up

  • #42   GK bang

    Henry VIII isn’t the person to go to for advice on sex. We’re talking about a man who kept cutting his wives’ heads off, which, as any schoolboy can tell you, is not how babies are made. I blame Shakespeare.

    Ay, the heads of the maids, or their maidenheads. Take it in what sense thou wilt.

    Nov 2, 2009 at 3:48 am   rating: 10  small thumbs up

  • #43   Susannie

    Have a great Pay! Hehe…

    Nov 2, 2009 at 6:11 am   rating: 0  small thumbs up

  • #44   MN

    I wish I’d gotten a note like this when I was dating my husband. I would have started leaving condom wrappers and flyers for sex shops everywhere.

    Nov 2, 2009 at 6:18 am   rating: 6  small thumbs up

    • #44.1   BrookeDiz

      Littering is against the rules. You’re expelled.

      Nov 2, 2009 at 10:47 am   rating: 6  small thumbs up

    • #44.2   MN

      I like getting in trouble. Getting expelled means more time to put those condoms to use. ;)

      Nov 2, 2009 at 12:48 pm   rating: 1  small thumbs up

  • #45   Michelle

    As a lifetime resident of Utah I must say that is not an “only in Utah” note, but an “only in Provo” note.

    Nov 2, 2009 at 8:26 am   rating: 9  small thumbs up

  • #46   zerodark bang

    Note to self: Do not read inane comments again.

    Nov 2, 2009 at 8:27 am   rating: 0  small thumbs up

    • #46.1   anglophile bang

      Oh noes! Our comments! Zerodark does not want!

      I has a sad. :(

      Nov 3, 2009 at 8:06 am   rating: 7  small thumbs up

    • #46.2   mamason bang

      I’m all confused. If I don’t read the comments, how will I determine whether or not they’re inane. Can we ask Kerry for an inane button?

      Nov 5, 2009 at 1:18 am   rating: 0  small thumbs up

  • #47   jaywalke

    When I lived in Boise (which has a very large Moroni-worshipping population) with a buddy of mine, we had them ringing the doorbell weekly. At first it was young couples, but as soon as they figured out that two unmarried men lived in that apartment, the tactics changed. We got weekly visits from very young (18 and some who looked younger), pretty blonde girls in short skirts. It was double-creepy.

    Nov 2, 2009 at 9:22 am   rating: 22  small thumbs up

    • #47.1   pb&j

      Moroni-worshiping? WTH???? You don’t have a frickin’ clue what you’re talking about. I love ignorant people – life would be a bit boring without comments like yours.

      Nov 2, 2009 at 2:14 pm   rating: 1  small thumbs up

    • #47.2   Swwoodsy

      I LOVE when the Mormons or the Jehovah’s Witnesses come calling. ‘Cause I’m just a schadenfreude kind of girl. And I disagree with proselytizing.

      I never invite them in — I just politely explain that I am very happy with my religion; that I do not follow, condone, or support illogical, hypocritical, misogynistic religions of ANY kind, nor do I give monetary support to any church-based programs, be it for community outreach or a church field trip; that my family has a 500-year history of heresy that I proudly uphold; that I have no need for them to ever visit me again; and that should they elect to do so, I will perform a private person’s arrest for trespassing and then turn them over to the police.

      Strangely enough, I do not get repeat callers.

      Their facial expressions, though, when I mention the 500 years of heresy, are PRICELESS. I should take pictures.

      Nov 2, 2009 at 2:55 pm   rating: 9  small thumbs up

    • #47.3   pony girl bang

      47.2- I’ve seen that facial expression.

      When I was 16 and my parents were out travelling, I was sunbathing in the backyard topless.

      The doorbell rang twice. I thought maybe it was the mailman, since they rang twice, so i grabbed my t-shirt and ran to the door, pulling on the shirt on the way. I had just been in the pool, so I was wet.
      I answered the door dripping wet in my bikini bottom and now wet t-shirt that said:

      Intercourse, PA

      That is the day that I realized that I had big boobs. The looks on their faces freaked me out so much, I think I wore sweatshirts for a week after that.

      oh, yeah, so it wasn’t the mailman. It was two mormon guys going door-to-door. They only sent couples to our house after that.

      Nov 2, 2009 at 3:55 pm   rating: 17  small thumbs up

    • #47.4   Critical Grass bang

      And they didn’t leave a note after that explaining that it’s not ladylike to answer the door wearing a wet t-shirt?!
      Wow, those were very liberal mormons, I guess.

      Nov 2, 2009 at 4:38 pm   rating: 7  small thumbs up

    • #47.5   park rose

      I get English speaking Japanese Jehovahs over here (in Japan) – but it’s easy enough to say ‘Sorry, I’m not interested.’ They used to be Japanese-only speaking Jehovahs, but they’ve figured using English might be more effective, I guess.

      Plenty of Mormons here too. I haven’t met any Japanese ones, yet, but I am sure they exist. The non-Japanese Mormons tend to have excellent Japanese, as do most of the evangelists. I am sure that there are missionaries from the older sects of Christianity too.

      Nov 2, 2009 at 5:49 pm   rating: 0  small thumbs up

    • #47.6   pony girl bang

      In Hawai’i, the Samoan and Tongan door-knockers will picnic in your front yard.
      I never minded, personally. They go out as a family, and by family I mean Mom, Dad, Grandma and Grandpa, Aunts and Uncles, children and babies. They go out after church, park there car in the neighborhood and walk around until dark.
      So, they get tired, and stop in someone’s front yard and have a snack. They’ll stop for about 30 minutes.
      I always thought it was rather sweet, like when we were kids and just played in the entire neighborhoods’ front yards.
      I kind of miss it actually, here in Austin.

      Nov 3, 2009 at 6:30 pm   rating: 1  small thumbs up

  • #48   farcical aquatic ceremony

    from the BYU Honor Code website, for reals–

    FAQ: What is the process for obtaining a beard waiver?

    I wonder whether there are any bikini wax provisions in the code…I’ll check under
    part V(d)5l.ut

    Nov 2, 2009 at 9:45 am   rating: 15  small thumbs up

    • #48.1   pony girl bang

      for reals?

      I’ve only ever heard that at home.
      Are you from Hawai’i?

      Nov 3, 2009 at 6:31 pm   rating: 0  small thumbs up

    • #48.2   JetJackson

      I have heard “for reals” in oz.

      Nov 3, 2009 at 6:43 pm   rating: 1  small thumbs up

    • #48.3   pony girl bang

      Yeah, cuz of surfers.

      Nov 3, 2009 at 6:52 pm   rating: 0  small thumbs up

  • #49   farcical aquatic ceremony

    “Visiting hours may begin after 9:00 a.m. and extend until 12:00 midnight.”

    “Visitors of the opposite sex are permitted in living rooms and kitchens but not in the bedrooms in off-campus living units. ”

    And the clever girl returned from her 9 a.m. to 12 p.m. visits with a cat-that-got-the-cream grin, having adhered to the letter of the law with only a few strange markings stamped onto her butt–”NEVO”, “FFO\NO REWOP RCV”–to tell the tale.

    Nov 2, 2009 at 9:57 am   rating: 11  small thumbs up

    • #49.1   Neeners

      Hey some of the best times I’ve ever had occured between 9 am and 12 midnight in the living room and kitchen. That makes no difference at all.

      Nov 2, 2009 at 10:22 am   rating: 20  small thumbs up

    • #49.2   GK bang

      Me too, old boy! That four-course meal I cooked and then ate in the living room was rather delicious, if I do say so myself!

      Nov 2, 2009 at 10:40 am   rating: 2  small thumbs up

    • #49.3   Neeners

      Well, that was a little different from what I was referring to but…

      Nov 2, 2009 at 4:00 pm   rating: 1  small thumbs up

    • #49.4   pony girl bang


      Yes, I recall fondly all those ‘naked spaghetti’ nights that my ex and I had!

      Nov 3, 2009 at 6:32 pm   rating: 1  small thumbs up

  • #50   Diane

    Not everyone in Utah is a Mormon. I didn’t even think about this being written by a Mormon until the Mormon guy brought it up and got all hostile about it. I’m not Mormon, but I have Mormon friends who are all really nice and cool, so I don’t know where the negative stereotype comes from.

    Nov 2, 2009 at 1:50 pm   rating: 3  small thumbs up

    • #50.1   Andy Myers

      unfortunately, the comments don’t appear in chronological order—so it’s hard to see that my “hostile post” was written after a plethora of Momon-utah stereotyping. I completely agree with you; not all utahans are mormon; not all mormons in utah are “provo-mormons”, and not all provo-mormons are are like miss noseypants. I think that most of us utahans all get along pretty well.

      Nov 2, 2009 at 1:57 pm   rating: 0  small thumbs up

    • #50.2   Wade bang

      First they complained because they couldn’t gigglebrax, and now they complain that they can.

      Apparently a side effect of avoiding the Great Apostasy is not being able to divine sarcasm. ;)

      Nov 2, 2009 at 3:11 pm   rating: 14  small thumbs up

    • #50.3   park rose

      Your sarcasm is divine.

      Nov 2, 2009 at 5:52 pm   rating: 6  small thumbs up

    • #50.4   Krista

      In a river you can always see the rocks.
      I’ve lived in Utah all my life as well. I know that not all Utahans are Mormon, and not all Mormons are crazy-go-nuts, but the ones that are are the ones that show. Utah is known as the state full of Mormons because letters like these are always popping up here, the crazies are the ones that catch the attention of the world. Just like not all Jehovah’s Witnesses spend their days knocking on doors, just like not everyone from Alabama is a racist inbreeder, it is a stereotype that comes from the usually smaller, yet louder, group of people. There will always be people putting Mormons into a stereotype and there will always be Mormons falling into that stereotype. You are going to have to learn to live with that, and thank God you aren’t one of those Crazy Mobots. You can’t stop people from thinking what they’ll think. You can stop people from leaving ridiculous, nosy notes, or having premarital relations, or stereotyping people.

      Nov 2, 2009 at 6:49 pm   rating: 6  small thumbs up

    • #50.5   Wade bang

      I thought Utah was known as a state full of Mormons because it was founded by Mormons. ;)

      And if you know how to stop people from leaving ridiculous, nosy notes, please keep that information to yourself. I like this site. :D

      Nov 2, 2009 at 7:00 pm   rating: 8  small thumbs up

    • #50.6   Canthz_B bang

      Good to know that Utah was not known as a state full of Mormons until notes started appearing here.
      What was it known for before 2007 again?

      Oh yeah, the Osmonds…wait, they’re Mormons.
      I know! That Tabernacle Choir!
      No, that’s Mormon too.

      Listen, you can’t get past the fact that the phrase “sacred underwear” is inevitably going to get some snickers.
      If you can’t take it, get into Scientology. No one makes jokes about them.

      Nov 2, 2009 at 11:37 pm   rating: 11  small thumbs up

    • #50.7   Neeners

      50.5 Actually it was founded by Native Americans, but it was taken care of.

      Nov 3, 2009 at 11:05 am   rating: 4  small thumbs up

    • #50.8   Canthz_B bang

      No, Neeners…it was losted by Native Americans after the Mormons founded it!

      Who says there’s no place for Ebonics!! :lol:

      Nov 3, 2009 at 7:25 pm   rating: 4  small thumbs up

    • #50.9   mamason bang

      I once was lost, but now I’m found…

      I was going to write a couple of song parodies, like “Mormons are Just Alright with Me” and ” Ma-ma-ma My Moroni” but I lost interest in the project.

      Nov 5, 2009 at 1:24 am   rating: 3  small thumbs up

  • #51   Angie

    Anyone bitching about people picking on mormons needs to stfu. Regardless of their religion or where they are from, they need to learn not to stick their high-and-mighty noses where they don’t belong. PERIOD.

    Nov 2, 2009 at 3:48 pm   rating: 5  small thumbs up

  • #52   Critical Grass bang

    I think the secret to achieve World Peace is everybody minding their own damn business.

    In other words: Let your neighbour get some!

    Nov 2, 2009 at 4:22 pm   rating: 13  small thumbs up

  • #53   Chip

    Fuck mormons and fuck people that believe in any stupid fucking fairy tales like that. I could see Baptists in Texas doing the same thing. The type of faith doesn’t matter, they’re all fucking retarded.

    Nov 2, 2009 at 5:59 pm   rating: 5  small thumbs up

    • #53.1   JetJackson

      Fuck, fuck, fuckity, fuck fuck!

      Nov 2, 2009 at 6:27 pm   rating: 6  small thumbs up

    • #53.2   Canthz_B bang

      I would fuck ‘em, but it’s against the Honor Code.

      Nov 2, 2009 at 11:33 pm   rating: 13  small thumbs up

    • #53.3   GK bang

      Wow, Chip. Kind of a whiny little bitch, ain’tcha? :-) Did a Mormon piss in your cornflakes this morning or something?

      Nov 3, 2009 at 4:33 am   rating: 7  small thumbs up

    • #53.4   pony girl bang

      Seems Chip’s got himself on his shoulder.

      Nov 3, 2009 at 6:57 pm   rating: 10  small thumbs up

    • #53.5   Beanster bang

      “well, that certainly demonstrates the… diversity of the word”

      Nov 3, 2009 at 7:29 pm   rating: 3  small thumbs up

  • #54   JetJackson

    This post is going gangbusters. You write something controvertial about mormons and all of a sudden they flood the site. I bet they are handing out “Boycott PAN” flyers at BYU right now. Well maybe not right now because it is 7:40pm and that means only just over 4 more hours before plutonic visits are over and we wouldn’t want to break the honour code.

    Meanwhile I am going to start up an anti-mormon blog and cash in on all the hate traffic that I get.

    Nov 2, 2009 at 8:49 pm   rating: 4  small thumbs up

    • #54.1   infant tyrone bang


      “Plutonic” ?

      A reference to SLC ‘s nascent or somnolent Mob scene?
      Don Tommy Two-Wives and his multitasking lieutenants ?

      You have some low-down info re Missionaries on the Down Low ?

      On your new site, if you get some of those 18 y/o Boise babes sending screeds or e-sweetness, you be sure to lemme know now, no ?

      Nov 2, 2009 at 9:06 pm   rating: 1  small thumbs up

    • #54.2   JetJackson

      Plutonic… I was searching for a word that meant conjugal and plutonic. Plonjugal or Contonic or something…

      Nov 2, 2009 at 9:29 pm   rating: 1  small thumbs up

    • #54.3   infant tyrone bang

      Thought you meant ‘platonic’, but now I’m not sure…

      Just found out there IS a ‘plutonic’, relating to subsurface igneous rocks…

      Maybe if the visit was volcanically hot enough…and deep enough…
      Perhaps…plunge-a-gal ?

      If you meant platonic, contonic may be as good as it gets…but it’s a little like playing 3-NoTrump when you were hoping for a 6-Tridents slam…

      Nov 2, 2009 at 9:58 pm   rating: 2  small thumbs up

    • #54.4   JetJackson

      No I meant igneous rocks ;)

      Nov 3, 2009 at 4:35 pm   rating: 0  small thumbs up

    • #54.5   infant tyrone bang

      Well…whatever ignites your volcanic libido and subsequently propels your magma up to the surface…

      Considering the pent up pressure prevalent in penitentiaries, I propose that previously termed conjugal visits be referred to as plunge-a-gal…
      unless your visitor is a fellow golfer and you’re playing the Back Nine…

      Nov 3, 2009 at 5:52 pm   rating: 2  small thumbs up

  • #55   Audrey

    I went to BYU and I wish wish wish I would have saved the copious number of notes I received that were nearly identical to this one. Yes, it is hilarious. Mormons are generally ridiculous, especially the culture down in Provo.
    That being said, I haven’t been Mormon in a long time, and I’ll be the first to criticize, but Chip? C’mon. Get some anger management or something. They convert your sister or something? Jesus! Let people be.

    Nov 2, 2009 at 9:07 pm   rating: 8  small thumbs up

  • #56   Allen

    I can’t believe anyone is such a racist they are demoralizing the flying spaghetti monster. The flying spaghetti monster has never given anyone grief over the sleep overs. Just because the person noted the apartments where the spaghetti monster lives is no reason to drawn unfounded conclusions that the flying spaghetti monster wrote the note. No one has even proven that the flying spaghetti monster can even write. Further there is no tomato sauce stains on said note.

    Personally, I think it is a frame up. Someone is trying to besmirch the flying spaghetti monster’s good name. I cannot believe anyone would stoop this low as to try to make the flying spaghetti monster look guilty of such aggressious actions.

    In the words of Rodney King, “Can’t we all just get along?”
    In the words of Snoop, “You gotta get your for I get mine”
    In the words of Bill Clinton, “I did not have sexual relations with that woman, Miss Lewinski” (much)
    In the words of the late Michael Jackson, “Billie Jean is not my lova”
    In the words of the Flight of the Conchords, “it’s business, its business time”
    In the words of Ronald Reagan, “I don’t recall”

    Nov 2, 2009 at 9:36 pm   rating: 10  small thumbs up

    • #56.1   Canthz_B bang

      Oh my, I should have stopped at “demoralizing”, which I mentally turned into “denigrating” to force some sense into things. 8-O

      Nov 4, 2009 at 2:23 am   rating: 1  small thumbs up

  • #57   C

    EW. She spent the night at this guys house and now she’s married to him? I doubt they got married in the temple!

    Nov 2, 2009 at 9:50 pm   rating: 0  small thumbs up

  • #58   sexy_angelina bang

    Wtf yes this is passive aggressive notes!

    Nov 3, 2009 at 4:26 am   rating: 1  small thumbs up

    • #58.1   JetJackson

      I call spam!

      Nov 3, 2009 at 4:36 pm   rating: 0  small thumbs up

    • #58.2   GK bang

      Nonsense, I’m sure sexy_angelina really has a genuine and abiding interest in passive-aggressive notes, in between her porn shoots. How could you doubt such a trustworthy-looking face, er… um… yes, face, that is what I meant.

      Nov 4, 2009 at 2:43 am   rating: 0  small thumbs up

    • #58.3   mamason bang

      I call scrapple!

      Nov 5, 2009 at 1:29 am   rating: 0  small thumbs up

  • #59   Jennifer

    “Wide spacing between words- avoids people contact; has problems dealing with others.”

    I looked up a handwriting analysis site, as I noticed how weirdly widely spaced the writing was. Makes sense!

    Nov 3, 2009 at 7:28 am   rating: 3  small thumbs up

  • #60   Zina

    I have a feeling I am about to step in it, since this is clearly mostly not a morality-friendly comment thread, and the tone is mostly mocking and glib, and sometimes also hostile. But I’m going to take a chance at learning from my mistake (of posting a serious comment on a humor site) since I’d like more balance to the oft-repeated assertion here that private morality has no effect on society or individuals.

    First off, though, I completely agree that a note like the one left on the car is unhelpful, impolitic, intrusive, etc. I’m not defending the note.

    I am however, disagreeing with comments saying that promiscuity and premarital sex are normal and harmless. Yes, they are common (and therefore normal in that sense,) but I think the longstanding prohibitions against them in most societies arise from the fact that they do damage to individuals and communities. While my main reasons for thinking this are a matter of faith (I’m a Mormon, a BYU graduate, and a faithful married woman,) there are also some rational evidences that this is the case.

    When it comes to societies and communities, if the majority of people don’t follow laws and abide by contracts, then the rule of law and the stability of society falls apart. Of course there’s always a tension between how much societal, religious, and governmental intervention in a person’s life is too much, but if everyone only honors the laws they find fun and convenient, then none of us can expect to have our property protected from thieves, our walls protected from vandals, or our daughters protected from rapists. (And yes I recognize that all these things can and do happen, but so far in our society there is still usually legal recourse.) There is a popular modern consensus that practices of private morality don’t have any effect on others and therefore shouldn’t matter to anyone. But (and this isn’t necessarily provable, but it’s my opinion) if most of the members of a society flout all societal norms, in general that society will cease to be predictable, orderly, or safe, because individuals are unpredictable–no one will be able to trust anyone else. My sister heard an interview on NPR with a woman who’d worked for Enron and had been aware that most of the executives were involved in lots of extramarital hi-jinks, and she had thought their private lives didn’t pertain to their public lives–until the massive professional corruption there was exposed. Then, hearing the way the executives justified their actions, she couldn’t help coming to the conclusion that the habit of dishonesty and self-indulgence she’s seen manifested in the executives’ private lives influenced their professional lives; they believed they could flout the rules in any context, and that they were not responsible to maintain others’ trust. That attitude carried over into not caring about shareholders’ investments, and being willing and eager to make a lot of money illegally and at others’ expense.

    Of course not every cheating spouse or experimenting single person is a tax cheat nor a corrupt executive, but I do think the habit of not feeling responsible to others, of not making or keeping commitments, or of lying and deceiving, all can and often do carry over into other aspects of a person’s life–to their own detriment, and to the detriment of those who trusted them.

    As far as how morality affects individuals’ security and happiness, I’ve read that most people still say that they want to find lasting love. Most people want to get married, and many would like to have kids. For this comment, I’m not going to track down the sources, but I’ve read very well-referenced sources that offer these empirically-evidenced facts: People who are sexually active before marriage are less likely to stay married. People who divorce are less likely to be prosperous. Children in single-parent homes are far more likely to be abused. Obviously, all these trends affect society and not just individuals, but I think the most salient point for the happiness of individuals is that we’re happiest when we feel like we can know, love, and accept someone, and be known, loved, and accepted ourselves, completely. The best relationships require trust, and that trust is best developed within the explicit commitment of a marriage relationship, so if we want lasting love and happy, safe children, then chastity and fidelity give us our best chances. (They are of course not guarantees. But I think we owe it to ourselves to stack the deck in favor of our happiness.)

    P.S. I collect malapropisms and creative spellings, and my two favorites in this thread were “blatantacy” and “plutonic.” Beautiful.

    P.P.S. Maybe I’ll be spared from having stepped in it, since everyone’s already moved on from this post.

    P.P.P.S. I’m not sure when the college years became (as several of you are asserting) a time to be free of all constraint and live a debauched lifestyle, but I think that’s a depressing viewpoint–it makes it sound like people in that stage of life are not important to society and nothing they do really matters. I prefer the old-fashioned notion that the college years are a valuable time to start building a good life.

    Nov 3, 2009 at 1:20 pm   rating: 5  small thumbs up

    • #60.1   oi bang

      I have expressed more than once, only if I had sarcastic smiley. sigh! That would spare lots of people lots of trouble. Trouble like reading and then comprehending too.
      p.s. I am not agreeing with you.

      Nov 3, 2009 at 1:29 pm   rating: 4  small thumbs up

    • #60.2   anglophile bang

      Zina, you mean well, I know you do.

      But if you are really holding Mormons up as the pinnacle of society and something to which the rest of us should aspire, well, I’ve got to think you haven’t met many non-Mormons.

      And by that I mean that just because someone doesn’t follow the patriarchal, misogynistic teachings of one splinter group of one type of religion doesn’t make them a rapist. For pete’s sake. :|

      Nov 3, 2009 at 1:34 pm   rating: 15  small thumbs up

    • #60.3   Woman on the Verge bang

      The posters here strive for political incorrectness and blatant sarcasm bordering on abuse. It’s what we do. None of it is meant for viewers under 14 or those with weak constitutions… or high morals.

      Nov 3, 2009 at 1:44 pm   rating: 9  small thumbs up

    • #60.4   Zina

      Oi, it’s true the sarcasm button would be useful, especially since Woman on the Verge tells me that this site is indeed not a place for those who promote high morals. Who am I to believe? I’ll admit I’m relieved if you don’t actually believe that the college years exist for the purpose of promoting dissipation.

      Anglophile, I was using rape as an example of something we all (I hope!) agree on as a violation of law and morality. I was also trying to draw a connection between private immorality and the decline of a law-abiding society. Of course by far not not all immoral persons are rapists–but all rapists are immoral.

      I’m also of the impression that there are many people ((in the U.S. and the world) who still support and practice traditional morality, and to the extent that they do, I think it brings them peace and happiness. Mormons are usually a few years behind the curve in societal trends, but no one is perfect and immoral behaviors happen in every society. I just don’t think it’s helpful (or kind, actually) to applaud and promote them.

      Woman on the Verge, thanks for the heads-up, (although I’d already formed an impression of the commenting majority here, and suspected I’d be a fish out of water.) For what it’s worth, I do think it’s possible to appreciate the humor of passive-aggressive notes even while avoiding crassness or abuse–but I’ll try to keep it in mind if that possibility doesn’t extend to commenting.

      I think I’ll be quiet now–although I hesitate to promise such, since many people seem incapable of keeping those kinds of promises on the internet, and I might turn out to be one of them.

      Nov 3, 2009 at 3:20 pm   rating: 1  small thumbs up

    • #60.5   anglophile bang

      And my point, Zina, is that I have been perfectly capable of refraining from raping anyone, or indeed, commit any crime at all (if you don’t count speeding), even though I do not believe that it is immoral for two adults to engage in sexual relations without the (debatable) benefit of marriage.

      Thank you for labeling me immoral. It’s instructive to be judged by my fellow human beings.

      Nov 3, 2009 at 4:20 pm   rating: 16  small thumbs up

    • #60.6   park rose bang

      Is one promiscuous if one has a sexual relationships with one’s boyfriend, partner, de facto and if one goes on to marry said boyfriend.

      It is interesting. Affairs seem to be rife in communities which have strict mores governing sexual behaviour, especially as partners often don’t know each other before they marry, and marry young, due to the strict mores, and maybe do not divorce, oftentimes not because they love each other, but because of the same strict mores, which might explain some of Zina’s empirical data.

      I have lived in a society which practiced traditional morality, as Zina termed it. I guess it brought the men, especially, a bit of excitement, the women, too, though. Trips to Thailand without the spouse for ‘sightseeing’ was the order of the day. But then, “non-moral” and people who do not practice traditional morality do that too.

      Maybe having an affair is more moral than having sex before marriage?

      One piece of traditional morality which I’d like to see us return to is stoning. It’s particularly popular amongst religious leaders, though not necessarily their followers, in countries where traditional morality is rigidly enforced. That would take care of all of those fornicators and adulterers. Though, of course, usually only the weak and poor get caught.

      Oh, and the traditional morality of this society was that a man and woman should not be alone in a room or the devil would appear. This is also a Christian concept, which is not adhered to so much nowadays, thank God, I guess (since He governs everything ;) ). It meant, of course, that if you were in a room alone with a man – man was weak, the devil was strong, the devil was the woman… – I think in this situation the traditional morals actually encourage rape and assault.

      Nov 3, 2009 at 4:49 pm   rating: 12  small thumbs up

    • #60.7   JetJackson


      Dishonesty and a corrupt personality can lead to both infidelity in private and corruption in ones professional life. Stating that moral corruption in ones private life leads to moral corruption in the private life is confusing cause and effect. Someone is corrupt first and they then display this in areas of their life.

      Therefore I believe you cannot use this causal link as justification for imposing your beliefs on the private lives of others. For example, An executive in “The Widget Company”, which you happen to have shares in, engages in infidelity and then expropriates money from “The Widget Company” which causes you to lose money. The infidelity was not a cause of the expropriation. You cannot link your monetary loss to the incident of infidelity. You can only link it to the moral corruption of the executive.

      Furthermore stating that you will get references and have read something that was backed with empirical research does not make your assertions facts. Even if you did provide references, which you did not, the idea that they are facts is still subjective and no ‘empirical research’ is infallible.

      Nov 3, 2009 at 5:16 pm   rating: 13  small thumbs up

    • #60.8   oi bang

      I thought it was a humor site.
      oh sorry my bad.
      If you are not able to understand even in your face sarcasm please go somewhere else. What Wotv said was it’s a humor site and comments do not reflect commenter’s real moral values or lack of it. And who are you to be judge? Internet animosity gives superpower to everybody but it’s internet at the end of day.
      I am not familiar with different branches of Christianity and comments here advocating Mormonism do everything but earn respect.
      so STFU.

      Nov 3, 2009 at 6:50 pm   rating: 9  small thumbs up

    • #60.9   Canthz_B bang

      Alas, rose, my cousin tried the “The Devil Made Me Do It” defense and was sentenced to 4 to 7 years for sexual assault.
      Damned jurors didn’t adhere to traditional morals. They actually believe that “No” means “No”.

      Nov 3, 2009 at 7:14 pm   rating: 8  small thumbs up

    • #60.10   Canthz_B bang

      Zina, whose morality would you say is “traditional morality”?
      What is considered moral in one society may not be considered moral in another.
      The problem here is that you’d like the world to adhere to your personal view of morality (the morality that you accept) and if they don’t, you label them as immoral.

      Last question…Who died and made you God?

      Nov 3, 2009 at 7:20 pm   rating: 8  small thumbs up

    • #60.11   aaa bang

      a) I’m a nihilist and don’t believe in the concept of objective morality. :D (BWA HA HA HA!)
      b) You acknowledge that your comment is not suited for this blog. I think you just like stirring shit.
      c) I just watched some gay porn. It was great.

      Nov 3, 2009 at 9:13 pm   rating: 5  small thumbs up

    • #60.12   anglophile bang

      Guys or girls, aaa?

      Nov 3, 2009 at 9:15 pm   rating: 0  small thumbs up

    • #60.13   aaa bang

      Pfft, man porn. It’s full of win.

      Nov 3, 2009 at 9:18 pm   rating: 4  small thumbs up

    • #60.14   RP

      Your argument in the third paragraph is full of fail. 1) Your sister’s opinion proves nothing. It’s an opinion not fact. 2) Correlation does not equal causation. 3) A few executives is too small a sample to even argue correlation. 4) I could easily argue that it’s the other way around: It was the fact that they didn’t care about hurting society at large that lead to the attitude that adultery is OK. I could also argue that neither caused the other but were both caused by the simple fact that those executives are assholes. 5) Even if that argument actually proved something it’s only proven something about EXTRA-marital sex not PRE-marital sex. No one here said anything about adultery being OK.

      Your sixth paragraph is pointless. If you cannot cite your sources then they do not exist. CORRELATION DOES NOT EQUAL CAUSATION. The phrase “less likely to be prosperous” is so vague it means nothing (less happy, less money, what?). Again, you can’t use the opinion of an individual, especially yourself, as proof of something that’s supposed to be factual.

      If you want to have a argument about morality on a humor site then fine but you need to do better than some waffle about the fall of Enron being caused by extra-marital affairs, some vague stats you pulled out the air, and what you ‘feel’ is right. Take a Critical Thinking class and come up with something that is logical and valid or *STFU*!

      Nov 4, 2009 at 1:19 pm   rating: 11  small thumbs up

    • #60.15   mamason bang

      Expressing one’s opinion is not imposing. We all come here for entertainment and we frequently express our views and opinions about whatever the topic du jour happens to be that day so all y’all need to chill and remember that mine is the only opinion that really matters. I kid. I kid because I love and the bickering and the yelling makes me nervous so I try to lighten the mood by being silly. I will now STFU! *not really*

      It doesn’t matter if you believe in God. He believes in you. ♥

      Nov 5, 2009 at 1:43 am   rating: 2  small thumbs up

    • #60.16   Canthz_B bang

      Look, I know Zina means well, but:

      “but I do think the habit of not feeling responsible to others, of not making or keeping commitments, or of lying and deceiving, all can and often do carry over into other aspects of a person’s life”

      is nothing more than personal opinion. An opinion she’s entitled to have.

      In having that opinion publicly, others have every right to explain to her that she’s full of it.

      Let’s turn that logic around for a sec…I love and respect my mother and sister, therefore, I would never disrespect a woman.

      Yeah, fall for that bullshit more than once!

      Fact is, people, normal people, are able to compartmentalize disparate aspects of their lives…the gray I spoke of earlier that black and white thinkers do not comprehend.
      “Bad” people are not necessarily all bad, “Good” people are not necessarily all good.

      You take the good with the bad and try to associate with people who are more good than bad.

      Rocket surgery?
      I don’t think so.

      Nov 5, 2009 at 2:14 am   rating: 3  small thumbs up

    • #60.17   mamason bang

      Brain science? I think not, too. :-|

      Huh? :-?

      (((((((CB))))))) ;-)

      Nov 5, 2009 at 2:18 am   rating: 1  small thumbs up

    • #60.18   Canthz_B bang

      mamason, I refuse to believe that you ever think not! :-)

      Nov 5, 2009 at 2:33 am   rating: 0  small thumbs up

  • #61   Snayl bang

    This is the same mentality that got prop 8 passed in California… which the LDS bankrolled. I’ll stop making fun of sexually repressed uptight Mormons when they stay the fuck out of our bedrooms.

    Nov 3, 2009 at 2:01 pm   rating: 24  small thumbs up

  • #62   JetJackson

    @60.7 “Stating that moral corruption in ones private life leads to moral corruption in the private life is confusing cause and effect.”

    Should read;

    “Stating that moral corruption in ones private life leads to moral corruption in the professional life is confusing cause and effect.”

    Nov 3, 2009 at 9:24 pm   rating: 0  small thumbs up

  • #63   Audrey

    To “aaa” – win!
    Also: As I stated earlier, I was Mormon for most of my life. My husband was as well. We both waited until we married (well, engaged, oops!) to have sex, and I will tell you this: It fucked us up. We are halfway sexually retarded. I’m not saying we didn’t know where things went, but as far as having healthy attitudes toward sex, we’re fucktastic, and not in the good way… So seriously, get off your high horse. Getting married at age 19, after only knowing your spouse for 3 months, is NOT a healthy or wise thing to do… as many Mormons are in the habit of doing.

    Nov 3, 2009 at 9:39 pm   rating: 16  small thumbs up

    • #63.1   Canthz_B bang

      I bet they wouldn’t get married at 19 to their first love if they could have premarital sex.

      Because you’re infatuated and horny is never a good basis for a life-long commitment.

      After a little experience one can easily tell the difference between love and a good healthy dose of lust.

      Nov 3, 2009 at 11:46 pm   rating: 10  small thumbs up

  • #64   Hardy Har

    I literally did not understand this one at first. Was she parked at a business and not supposed to be parked there all night? Like a bar called King Henry’s? Then I read the comments… “OH! It’s Mormons!” It didn’t even occur to me even though there was that weird comment about her staying over being “inappropriate” … A whole different culture there, wow.

    Nov 3, 2009 at 9:41 pm   rating: 4  small thumbs up

  • #65   Zina

    Jet, I didn’t say I’d get references, in fact I said I wouldn’t bother, but that I’d learned those statistics from reputable sources.
    But, okay, here’s one link from a quick Google search.

    I checked the titles of a few of the studies cited and they’re real studies. I noticed at least a couple of the studies were from the mid-nineties, so I suppose things could have changed (but I doubt they’ve changed very greatly.)

    In response to some of the other comments: I don’t favor enforced morality and I doubt that most Western societies will ever return to that model, but I do think that if you want to have lasting love in marriage (as many people still say they do,) you increase your odds by choosing to wait to have sex until you’re married.

    And yes, I agree that there’s a continuum of immoral behaviors, and that those at the less-promiscuous end are most likely to end up in satisfying, committed relationships. The article I linked cites a study that says that after 8 years of cohabitation, a couple has the same odds of marriage survival as a couple who didn’t cohabit, so that supports the idea that commitment is good for . . . commitment.

    (Also, obviously these studies were of cohabitation rather than of premarital sex, but I’m assuming a correlation.)

    Also, yes, “traditional morality” is a term that has some vagueness; there are many different traditions and some have also incorporated some very undesirable aspects, such as double standards or draconian enforcement. I meant the practice of choosing to abstain from sex before marriage, and believe that making that choice is good for individuals and societies.

    Also, to say that societies with an expectation of premarital chastity have higher rates of infidelity or deviance is an interesting assertion, and also a debatable one. Maybe it’s the case, but maybe not. I’d be interested to know.

    I do agree that fornication is different in kind from adultery, and think adultery is usually worse, but I think even fornication often leads to a lack of trust and commitment.

    If by “stirring the pot,” you meant, “promoting a different viewpoint,” then, yes. But I think I’ve learned my lesson about this particular social milieu: apparently, while premarital sex is awesome, being serious on a humor site (HUMOR ONLY! IGNORE THIS MANDATE AT YOUR PERIL!) is a grievous offense indeed.

    Nov 3, 2009 at 10:20 pm   rating: 2  small thumbs up

    • #65.1   pony girl

      ….But I think I’ve learned my lesson about this particular social milieu: apparently, while premarital sex is awesome, being serious on a humor site (HUMOR ONLY! IGNORE THIS MANDATE AT YOUR PERIL!) is a grievous offense indeed.

      Glad you finally get it.

      Nov 3, 2009 at 10:25 pm   rating: 9  small thumbs up

    • #65.2   Canthz_B bang

      Took her long enough.

      Oops, can I say “long enough” or is that against the Honor Code? :-P

      Nov 3, 2009 at 11:40 pm   rating: 9  small thumbs up

    • #65.3   JetJackson

      I apologise for not reading your first post correctly. You did in fact say that you would not bother to get the sources.

      You make no reference in your new post as to your argument that immorality in private life leads to immorality in public life which is therefore bad for society. I have argued that the mere action of being ‘immoral’ in private life has no effect on public life. I believe in lack of a defense from you that this argument stands.

      Furthermore you have used a source only to reference your initial assertion that “People who are sexually active before marriage are less likely to stay married”. Your reference that cohabitation prior to marriage leads to divorce (Sexually active is almost inherent in the notion of cohabitation I will give you that) backs this point up. So if we accept this point which you have linked back to your initial argument that morality effects security and happiness is still predicated on your belief that Divorce is a negative thing to be avoided. I would argue that whilst there is normally an initial period of depression and remorse post divorce a person can go on to grow and achieve happiness in their life post divorce. I have seen this many times and have also seen both my parents achieve happiness post divorce and then go on to remarry. Which goes against your next argument that people who are divorced are less likely to be prosperous.

      I agree on the idea that economies of scale that are achieved through marriage. Although I would point out this can also be achieved in unmarried cohabiting couples. My key point though is that divorcees can remarry and achieve those economic benefits again.

      Your next argument that children from single parent homes are more likely to be abused is again a confusion of causality. I believe it needs to be restructured. Abused children are more likely to come from single parent homes. This is because a marriage is more likely to break up if one of the spouses is abusive. The divorce and the abused child are both effects of the abusive spouse. The abused child is not an effect of the divorce.

      Going back to your reference that cohabitation prior to marriage leads to divorce. I have seen the research you are referring to which is criticized because it does not take into account that couples who are morally comfortable with cohabitation prior to marriage are also more likely to be morally comfortable with divorce. See reference here – yeah that’s right, an actual paper, not an article on a website. Pay particular attention to what it terms ‘selection effects’.

      I don’t see anything wrong with being serious as well as humorous on this website, you just have to expect seriousness back. I am all for debating, it raises the collective consciousness.

      P.s. Sex is awesome and I don’t see how it relates to marriage. “Premartial sex” is just one of what I believe are many religious terms used to set an unachievable moral standards. This is in a belief system which makes people believe they are sinners who will then suffer negative consequences (hell) if they do not ask for forgiveness and avoid the negative consequence through a solution (god/jesus) so conveniently provided by the religion itself. It’s selling ice to Eskimos, the greatest sale ever made… the emperor has no clothes!

      Nov 3, 2009 at 11:49 pm   rating: 18  small thumbs up

    • #65.4   aaa bang

      Good to see you understand the Prime Directive of PAN. :D

      Nov 4, 2009 at 1:25 am   rating: 1  small thumbs up

    • #65.5   park rose

      Hong-Kong Phooey, you mean? The Prime Detective of pre-martial arts…

      Oh, Prime Directive…

      Move along.
      Nice post, JJ.

      Nov 4, 2009 at 1:36 am   rating: 2  small thumbs up

    • #65.6   Canthz_B bang

      Hmm, I had premarital sex with both of my former wives.
      The first marriage ended in divorce, but we had sex for nearly another ten years, so that wasn’t what caused our divorce.
      My second wife and I had a very happy marriage, and a kick ass sex life before and after marriage…she just happened to pass away.

      Your point again? Oh, that premarital sex is bad for marriage.

      Not. Being young, broke and living under the same roof with a bitch is bad for marriage.
      Death is bad for marriage.

      SIG (Sex Is Good)!!!

      Nov 4, 2009 at 1:56 am   rating: 11  small thumbs up

    • #65.7   Canthz_B bang

      Poor Zina.

      We have serious discussions around here all the time, but we still manage to take the edge off of most comments with a little humor.

      Personally, I don’t really cotton to rough drafts of anyone’s dissertation, however.
      Especially if there’s not even the slightest attempt to find some ironic twist to it.

      Preaching on the internet is unlikely to gain many converts…unless you flash some tit while you spout off. ;-)

      Nov 4, 2009 at 2:11 am   rating: 6  small thumbs up

    • #65.8   Zina

      Jet, if corruption in individuals isn’t good for large companies nor for happiness in marriage, then whether or not one form of corruption leads to the other or they just travel in pairs, at the very least it would be nice for both public and private life if we had fewer corrupt individuals. (Yes, this is a bit of circular reasoning based on the presumption that “Corruption is bad so corruption is bad,” but it’s late and I’m tired and I don’t want to try to rationally prove that corruption is bad.) And if the two traits (public and private corruption) tend to correlate, then whether one is causal of the other or not, it would still seem that a person who practices self-discipline in private moral matters is generally more likely to be a good person to entrust with one’s finances (etc.) –no?

      Thanks for the link to the interesting article–my first response was “They found couples to study in Austria who hadn’t cohabited?” But it seems they’ve included rural and semi-urban areas in the study to keep balance (and I can retain my perception of lifestyles in large Western European cities.) I haven’t finished reading the article, although I do understand the bit about selection, (they make my same obvious point that commitment leads to commitment) from which alone I guess one could draw another obvious point that if you value a stable marriage you’re more likely to behave in a way that’s more likely to sustain a stable marriage. (Which *I* think is: AWESOME!)

      I think I could find more evidences to support my opinion that private morality and public morality do have a relationship that influences the public good and private happiness, but the main thing I came back to say is that while these topics are interesting to me (I’m very tempted by some of the tangents thrown out by other commenters,) and I do appreciate a respectful(ish) debate, I’m not enjoying the overriding tone here in the comments and have for now (again) decided to let my part of this thread die. (I’m still not promising, but at the moment I feel, um, committed in this decision.)

      Nov 4, 2009 at 2:20 am   rating: 1  small thumbs up

    • #65.9   park rose

      I think a touch of divine inspiration from a good Jewish boy turned Buddhist, covered by a man (now sadly dead) who sang Benjamin Britten tunes, is in order.

      Nov 4, 2009 at 3:47 am   rating: 3  small thumbs up

    • #65.10   Canthz_B bang

      Zina, are you saying that all of the people that ran Enron and Worldcom, et. al. where cheating on their spouses?
      I submit that they were quite possibly cheating in business to enrich their personal lives.
      Your world-view is a bit too simplistic.
      People aren’t all good or all bad…we’re a motley mix of the two and everything in between.
      You live in a black and white pseudo-reality which ignores all shades of gray.
      For you, it either is or it isn’t…there is no middle ground.

      Sad really. The joy of life lies in the nuances of life and how we weave them into the fabric of our existence.

      I’m just kidding!
      The joy of life really does lie in the certainty that one is absolutely correct in all things and that if everyone would just live their lives the way one lives one’s own life, the world would be fucking perfect!! :-)

      Nov 4, 2009 at 7:54 am   rating: 6  small thumbs up

    • #65.11   anglophile bang

      I’m sorry. I’m still really steamed at your assumption that because I do not consider it immoral to engage in sexual activity without being married, I would therefore not find it immoral to cheat at business, take candy from babies, knock little old ladies down, etc.

      It seems to me that you believe sex is inherently bad and needs to be “sanctified” to be socially acceptable. Most of the rest of us don’t. Which goes back to my original post to you. You need to know more non-Mormons. We’re not all hell-bent on destroying society. Really.

      Nov 4, 2009 at 10:43 am   rating: 13  small thumbs up

    • #65.12   NoExit


      That is a lucid, intelligent, well thought out objection.


      Nov 4, 2009 at 12:58 pm   rating: 4  small thumbs up

    • #65.13   mamason bang

      A cheater is a cheater.

      A liar is a liar.

      We all fall short.

      I’m done preachin’ to the choir.

      Nov 5, 2009 at 1:52 am   rating: 0  small thumbs up

    • #65.14   pony girl

      I guess she didn’t get it.

      Nov 5, 2009 at 2:27 am   rating: 0  small thumbs up

  • #66   Audrey
    Scroll over Utah; you’ll see that its marriage and divorce trends are on par with the US average. Utah also has the #1 highest bankruptcy rate of all the states.
    Utah’s antidepressant use. Terrifying.

    Nov 3, 2009 at 11:07 pm   rating: 10  small thumbs up

  • #67   Audrey

    And Zina, that link you sent – hardly a reliable source. “”? Certainly biased.
    I, too, am a BYU graduate. I even got a minor in MFHD (that’s Marriage, Family, and Human Development for you non-Mormons out there. The major you went into if you were looking for a husband. You had to take about 40 marriage classes). I’ve seen the studies. I’ve been there. And I can tell you, they are certainly quick to use certain studies to support religious views. But correlation isn’t causation. And they don’t explain Utah’s high divorce rate… and they certainly don’t mention that many people who are unhappy in marriages (even ones with abuse) feel especially trapped because they have an obligation to God and their families to stay together… it just encourages people to be miserable together.

    Nov 3, 2009 at 11:13 pm   rating: 15  small thumbs up

    • #67.1   mamason bang

      I think it’s unfortunate that the divorce rate is so high. I think it’s rather remarkable that the divorce rate among professed Christians is slightly higher than the national average. It’s worthy of mention that the divorce rate among couples that co-habitate before marriage is even higher still and that second marriages are statistically doomed. I say all of this as a once divorced, professed Christian, currently married to her 2nd husband after having co-habitated prior to marriage. *sigh*

      Nov 5, 2009 at 1:57 am   rating: 2  small thumbs up

    • #67.2   park rose

      What about those who cohabit, never marry and stick together forever. I wonder what the stats are? Or can only married and divorced couples be measured empirically because there are official documents and such to, well, document?

      Nov 5, 2009 at 3:36 am   rating: 0  small thumbs up

    • #67.3   mamason bang

      Very interesting, Rose. Very interesting, indeed. Now I must do some (any) research on that. I’m sure if I google it I’ll get reliable, believable, fair and balanced information that I’ll be able to share. I’ll get right on that. ;-)

      Nov 5, 2009 at 10:47 am   rating: 1  small thumbs up

  • #68   Beaudelier

    Epic post and comments.

    When all is said and done, in relation to logic and basic common sense…

    “Heathens”: 1, “Moral Majority”: 0

    Nov 4, 2009 at 2:29 am   rating: 3  small thumbs up

  • #69   GK bang

    Honestly, I go away for five minutes and you’re all posting walls of text about your thoughts on politics and morality. Where’s the funny, damn it?!

    I’m gonna get all Bambi’s mother on these teal deer! >:-)

    Nov 4, 2009 at 2:30 am   rating: 6  small thumbs up

  • #70   Susan

    It sounds to me like there are a lot of ways to be debauched in that place…. If you’re in to that kind of thing. I should book a plane ticket… ;)

    Nov 4, 2009 at 7:35 am   rating: 0  small thumbs up

  • #71   Michelle

    I thought it said “King Horny” and commended the writer on his/her humor. Sadly it didn’t.

    Nov 4, 2009 at 8:33 am   rating: 3  small thumbs up

  • #72   Marcus

    A little bit more background — this note is actually not so much “typical Utah” as it is “typical Provo”. Specifically, it’s “typical BYU-approved student housing in Provo”, and very much so. There are a number of apartment complexes in Provo that are privately owned, but in order to be have the status of “approved” BYU housing have to enforce/abide by BYU’s draconian and absurd “Honor Code”. If someone turns you in for violating said code, you can be in big trouble by the BYU secret police, aka the honor code office. People are expected to “turn in” gratuitous violators in their own apartment or building; not doing so may even be a violation of the code. It’s extreme and shocking, even for many Mormons. Sleeping overnight in a boy’s apartment is a big time no-no for a girl on the honor code. My older brother once lived in one of these apartment complexes, and although he and his roommates were *not* BYU students, they were threatened with eviction because they had a coffee maker (!!!!) in their kitchen — I shit you not. The complex owners are terrified of losing their precious “BYU approved student housing” status, because that’s their bread and butter.

    Bottom line: don’t think that this is what living in Utah is like; but living in Provo, especially in student housing, is definitely like this — this note rings SO TRUE. Salt Lake City, on the other hand, is actually a surprisingly liberal place — politically, a distinct patch of bright blue (along with Park City) in a vast sea of red, and culturally a pretty cool place to live. The University of Utah is like the anti-BYU.

    Nov 5, 2009 at 5:29 am   rating: 8  small thumbs up

    • #72.1   Audrey

      So true. Typical Provo and typical SLC are vastly different. And I’ve been the recipient of many a passive-aggressive note from roommates who are terrified that THEY will be expelled from the university because *I* had a boy in our (gasp!) living room until (gasp!) midnight. (gasp!) I think it’s worth noting, however, that BYU’s 30,000 students are all learning how to narc on each other. (Also: I know exactly which apartments these are – my close friends lived there. It was a shithole.)

      Nov 5, 2009 at 8:47 pm   rating: 4  small thumbs up

  • #73   White Salamander

    Gotta love BYU, obviously there’s no need to mind your own business since everyone else is minding it for you.

    Nov 5, 2009 at 11:21 pm   rating: 6  small thumbs up

  • #74   lo

    Gotta love the Mormons!

    Nov 6, 2009 at 4:38 pm   rating: 0  small thumbs up

  • #75   Jillibean

    this is classic BYU – everyone is watching out for each other. I got one of these from a special sister waaaay back in 1989, when I was dating the man I eventually married. Dooce has got to see this!

    Nov 9, 2009 at 10:08 pm   rating: 0  small thumbs up

  • #76   chastity

    You all should be ashamed it takes real courage to try to help someone by sticking a note on their car.

    Nov 11, 2009 at 10:02 pm   rating: 3  small thumbs up

  • #77   skippy

    Haha, I live in Provo. Lots of people don’t follow BYU’s incredibly strict housing rules, even the devout Mormons (I am one.) I spent the night at my now-husband’s apartment multiple times and we didn’t do anything against the BYU honor code – just watched TV and fell asleep on the couch. The note-writer is jumping to conclusions.

    Nov 23, 2009 at 5:01 pm   rating: 5  small thumbs up

  • #78   If you could summarize BYU culture in one note… |

    [...] nosy Provo neighbors [...]

    Nov 1, 2010 at 7:19 am   rating: 0  small thumbs up

  • #79   Pizza box as air freshener? Really? |

    [...] you needed another reason to be happy you don’t live in Utah, Justin brings us this explosion of bad ideas from a Provo office [...]

    Nov 1, 2010 at 7:33 am   rating: 0  small thumbs up


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