Bad luck you

June 7th, 2011 · 150 comments

“My parents have a large front yard,” writes David in Georgia, “and up until a few years ago, it had about 40 trees in it.” Unfortunately, an arborist informed David’s parents that those trees, while they looked normal enough, had become infested and essentially hollowed-out by insects, killing the trees and turning them into a pretty big safety risk in the case of a storm. At the arborist’s recommendation — and I’m sure, at all no small expense — David’s parents had the trees removed.

Fast forward a few months to December, when the family put up their usual holiday decorations — little trees made of Christmas lights — throughout the front yard. Soon after, David says, the family received two items of interest in their mailbox:

1. A certificate of recognition from the Arbor Day Foundation, “thanking us for our efforts to prevent further tree deaths”
2. This handmade holiday card.

Wishing you...

5 years' bad luck for each tree you killed....And if that wasn't bad enough, you have the nerve to make tacky 'trees' out of lights and call it holiday cheer. What's wrong with you? Sadly but sincerely, Your neighbors on Henderson Road

Adds David: “This person obviously put a lot of work into carefully drawing and writing it; the artwork and penmanship are immaculate. If only they’d put as much effort into asking us why we were having the trees removed.”

related: All together now…please don’t climb the tree!

FILED UNDER: Christmas · flowers, trees, houseplants & gardens · Georgia · holiday spirit · neighbors · Oops?

150 responses so far ↓

  • #1   Hmmm

    Cutting down trees and putting up artificial crap *is* pretty bad, though.

    Did you plant new trees to replace them, or do you fetishize a treeless lawn and cut down anything over 1 foot tall like so many other Americans?

    Jun 7, 2011 at 7:34 pm   rating: 90  small thumbs up

    • #1.1   Jessica

      They had FORTY TREES for crying out loud. Clearly they don’t fetishize a bare lawn. Way to completely miss the point.

      Jun 7, 2011 at 7:48 pm   rating: 90  small thumbs up

    • #1.2   Trish

      WTF does it matter?! I had 2 trees removed last year and was advised to wait at least 2 before I “replaced” them to make sure the offending disease (which stayed in the soil after removal) was gone. In addition, it’s their lawn. If they don’t WANT to replace them, that’s their prerogative.

      Jun 7, 2011 at 7:56 pm   rating: 90  small thumbs up

    • #1.3   David

      Original submitter here. The 40 trees were about half the ones on the property — it was the front yard that was infested, but the side and back yards were okay (different kind of tree, I think).

      And the holiday trees were what my parents put up EVERY year. They weren’t added specifically because we’d had other trees taken down. In fact, taking the trees down actually made the decorations a bit more work, since previously we would hang the lights from the trees instead of just out in empty field.

      Jun 8, 2011 at 12:13 am   rating: 90  small thumbs up

    • #1.4   Nunavut Guy

      Moses led his people through the desert looking for forty trees.Or something like that.

      Jun 8, 2011 at 6:25 am   rating: 90  small thumbs up

    • #1.5   Nunya

      Like most Americans?

      Where do you live? Most Americans love trees and beautiful plants.

      America is not New York and Los Angeles.

      Jun 8, 2011 at 6:54 am   rating: 90  small thumbs up

    • #1.6   Jimmy James

      They should send a note back to the neighbors, explaining the condition of the trees and why it had to be done, and state,”If I had a choice between you getting killed and my favorite tree getting chopped down, I would choose my favorite tree getting chopped down.

      But it would be close.”

      Jun 8, 2011 at 12:31 pm   rating: 90  small thumbs up

    • #1.7   Mr. Tucker

      I drive down Henderson every day and your parent’s house is one of my all time favorite Christmas decorations. I look forward to it every year, don’t worry about the haters.

      Jun 8, 2011 at 8:08 pm   rating: 90  small thumbs up

    • #1.8   Mama Wrench

      I have a tree in my front yard that we’ll soon have to have removed due to termite infestation; I’m actually really upset over it, that tree was one of the main things that attracted me to our house. Way to overgeneralize an entire nation of people — one of the largest nations in the world, as a matter of fact.

      Jun 8, 2011 at 10:17 pm   rating: 90  small thumbs up

    • #1.9   Quietmarc

      Oh, it’s one of the largest nations in the world? I hadn’t heard. In fact, I hardly ever hear about this “United States” of someplace called “America”. I really wish someone would publicize their existence more, because the world really needs to learn about this quiet, humble nation. Maybe if you invaded a country or something?

      Jun 9, 2011 at 11:08 am   rating: 90  small thumbs up

    • #1.10   aaa bang

      *nomming on popcorn* IT IS ON! LET THE BUTTHURT FUCKERY COMMENCE!

      Jun 9, 2011 at 12:07 pm   rating: 90  small thumbs up

    • #1.11   anon

      Oh yes, because all Americans dig being massively publicized and portrayed as stereotyped fat morons who love attention and live in concrete jungles. And they would personally do everything their often-criticized leaders do.

      Just like the French enjoy being called lazy whiners who can’t win a war.

      Jun 9, 2011 at 2:05 pm   rating: 90  small thumbs up

    • #1.12   Defensive City Dweller

      Hey, Nunya from a couple of posts up; we don’t even have lawns to fetishize in NYC, and I don’t think they do in LA either. We may hate trees and beautiful plants, but the immaculate, perfectly-trimmed lawn is most definitely a suburban thing. We city folk have our own idiosyncracies; there’s no need to try and give us yours too.

      Jun 10, 2011 at 3:33 pm   rating: 90  small thumbs up

    • #1.13   TickleMyBambo

      Even if you’re an American living in either L.A. or New Y0rk

      Please Do Not Cut Down The Trees!

      Jun 12, 2011 at 1:28 am   rating: 90  small thumbs up

    • #1.14   RP

      Why do I think “Hmmm” is the OP’s dumbass note writing neighbor?

      Jun 13, 2011 at 10:39 am   rating: 90  small thumbs up

    • #1.15   sarah

      LA has lots of lawns.

      Jun 13, 2011 at 11:24 pm   rating: 90  small thumbs up

  • #2   lagne

    If wood’s what they want, then next year, erect a gigantic lit-up penis with a huge wreath around the bottom. Then watch the artwork roll in.

    Jun 7, 2011 at 7:36 pm   rating: 90  small thumbs up

  • #3   Diggerjohn111

    What kind of greeny idiot would take the time to do all this? If someone cuts down THAT many trees, they obviously have to have a blight. This is beyond passive-aggressive, this is blind stupidity on the note writer’s part (part of me hopes they see this).

    Jun 7, 2011 at 7:38 pm   rating: 90  small thumbs up

    • #3.1   unsatisfied

      which part?

      perhaps seeing lagne’s post above has made me a little gay. my bad.

      Jun 7, 2011 at 11:26 pm   rating: 90  small thumbs up

    • #3.2   Canthz_B bang

      I like that she said “…erect a gigantic…penis…”, that’s full-blooded funny!!

      Jun 7, 2011 at 11:56 pm   rating: 90  small thumbs up

    • #3.3   lagne

      pun intended, daahlinks. ;-)

      Jun 8, 2011 at 2:18 am   rating: 90  small thumbs up

    • #3.4   Nunavut Guy

      I dunno…’s a hard post to swallow.

      Jun 8, 2011 at 6:46 am   rating: 90  small thumbs up

    • #3.5   zenvelo

      A Christmas penis? I thought Rep. Weiner was Jewish….8 giant penii for Hannukah!

      Jun 8, 2011 at 6:50 pm   rating: 90  small thumbs up

    • #3.6   TickleMyBambo

      Jingle Balls, Jingle Balls… Jingle all the way.

      Oh what fun it is to ride on a giant lit penis!

      Jun 12, 2011 at 1:31 am   rating: 90  small thumbs up

  • #4   katie_2256

    Nawww, “Sadly but sincerely”. Their shaky sad little writing and pretty picture make me want to forgive them for their apparent craziness and intense passive aggressive christmas card!

    Jun 7, 2011 at 7:38 pm   rating: 90  small thumbs up

    • #4.1   Team Redhead

      I’m picturing a mousy 30-something in a floral dress, humming to herself as she carefully considers each marker color, looking for that “just right” color to get across the feelings of shame she so desperately wants David’s family to feel.

      Those are the dangerous ones, David.

      Jun 8, 2011 at 9:28 am   rating: 90  small thumbs up

  • #5   FlyRice

    Georgia? Could have said Oregon and would have fooled me…nonsensical tree-huggers.

    Jun 7, 2011 at 7:39 pm   rating: 90  small thumbs up

  • #6   Joy

    Wow! I’ve got to say, this is my new favorite.

    Jun 7, 2011 at 7:40 pm   rating: 90  small thumbs up

  • #7   Marie

    Must live in Marin.

    Jun 7, 2011 at 7:43 pm   rating: 90  small thumbs up

    • #7.1   Adriana

      LOL Having lived in Marin, that’s what I thought, too, and until I checked the post again.

      Jun 8, 2011 at 1:01 am   rating: 90  small thumbs up

  • #8   Lizardqueen

    Wow. The card maker is downright “passive hostile”. They are wishing 200 years of bad luck on a family. That is more than breaking a mirror AND opening an umbrella in the house combined.

    Jun 7, 2011 at 7:45 pm   rating: 90  small thumbs up

    • #8.1   BillsBayou

      Inside your home at night: Place several mirrors under ladders and spill salt on them. Whistle in the dark and open the umbrella. Break the mirrors while black cats walk widdershins around you.

      Jun 8, 2011 at 10:16 am   rating: 90  small thumbs up

  • #9   Cr8vly

    This. Is. Awesome! I especially love the word ‘Death’ written on the blade of the chainsaw, that and the forethought to use the apostrophe after the S on years’. HA. Can’t stop smiling with this one. They shoulda made a P.A. response and stuck it in every mailbox on the road just to make whomever feel like a d-bag for not inquiring first.

    Jun 7, 2011 at 7:46 pm   rating: 90  small thumbs up

    • #9.1   unsatisfied

      I totally want to borrow that “death” chainsaw.

      with it, I think that I could scare the douchebag in the apartment next door into turning down his goddamned music. I mean, who still listens to creed?

      Jun 7, 2011 at 11:29 pm   rating: 90  small thumbs up

    • #9.2   bookworm

      Oooh, if that’s what we’re going to be using the death chainsaw on, I call dibs on it next. There is no need to blast crappy-ass folk music at three in the morning.

      Jun 8, 2011 at 8:33 am   rating: 90  small thumbs up

    • #9.3   The Elf

      Totally bookworm, totally. I make a point of only blasting good folk music at 3am.

      Jun 8, 2011 at 11:40 am   rating: 90  small thumbs up

    • #9.4   TickleMyBambo

      That has “The Georgia Chainsaw Tree Massacre” written all over it behind all those cutesy colored trees and words.

      Jun 12, 2011 at 1:34 am   rating: 90  small thumbs up

  • #10   Julia

    so awesome

    Jun 7, 2011 at 7:49 pm   rating: 90  small thumbs up

  • #11   Nack

    A lot of Americans live in what are called “SubDivisions”. They are controlled by evil organizations called “Home Owners Associations”. These H.O.A.s typically have rules about what you can do with your yard . So, some people are not simply trying to cut down anything over a foot tall because they want to, but because their H.O.A. has some ridiculous rule about it all.

    Jun 7, 2011 at 7:50 pm   rating: 90  small thumbs up

    • #11.1   lagne

      I will never, ever live in an area subject to HOAs. If I purchase property and a house, I will do whatever I damn well please with it. Christmas lights? You bet. Big huge trees? Planning on it. Giant lit-up dicks? If I feel like it.

      Seriously, I know there are perks to HOAs, but the idea of someone telling me what to do with my own property, based on how appropriate they think it is? Psh.

      Jun 7, 2011 at 7:56 pm   rating: 90  small thumbs up

    • #11.2   Mama Wrench

      Srsly — my house has already depreciated by $10K just in the two years since I bought it, clearly living in a “nice” neighborhood isn’t as beneficial to property value as everybody wants to make out. Houses appreciate in a good economy and depreciate in a bad one, regardless of where the house is.

      Jun 7, 2011 at 9:49 pm   rating: 90  small thumbs up

    • #11.3   Canthz_B bang

      Yes to all of the above, however, there is a little thing called “quality of life” to consider. I have no HOA, but would hate to live with a neighbor on one side with cars on cinder blocks on his front lawn and one on the other side who refuses to mow his lawn.
      That affects property values as well, even in a good economy. And also would affect my ability to enjoy my surroundings.

      Unfortunately, some people actually require rules and regulations to behave like they have some common sense.

      Jun 7, 2011 at 10:41 pm   rating: 90  small thumbs up

    • #11.4   lagne

      That’s true; some people are just animals. I’d rather live out in the boonies with real animals and my own rules. :-)

      I read through my parents’ HOA when they rented a condo briefly before buying their house. Utterly ridiculous. No washing the car in your own driveway.. Any flowering shrubs planted (only one per house!) must produce fuschia flowers only.. No privacy fences (only 4.5-foot spaced French gothic concave fences allowed.. puke).. After my nephews wrote on the driveway in sidewalk chalk, my father had to go PRESSURE WASH the driveway to avoid being fined.

      Yeah, they signed the lease and agreed to abide by the rules, but only because they knew it would be short-term. I just can’t imagine buying into it and signing my own home over to the kind of needling bitches who create and actually enforce this kind of bullshit.

      Jun 8, 2011 at 2:45 am   rating: 90  small thumbs up

    • #11.5   Who passed out the Haterade?

      For bonus points, read all the references to “HOAs” as if they were pronounced “hoes”.


      Personally, I have nothing against HOAs… but I certainly wouldn’t want to give them money to get my property values up. Much safer to do the work yourself. ;-)

      Jun 8, 2011 at 6:05 am   rating: 90  small thumbs up

    • #11.6   The Elf

      I hear ya, Lagne. But sometimes avoiding HOAs isn’t feasible. When we bought our first house, we could barely afford any house. Our finances limited us to HOA communities (townhomes), so we at least tried to pick one that didn’t appear to be powerful. But over the 10 years we lived there they turned into parking freaks. And don’t get me started on the 11th hour barrier to selling our home after they already signed off on the sale. I don’t think I’ve ever said as many four-letter words all at once as when I heard about that. When we moved, a condition of moving was not living in an HOA community.

      But I’m not going to fault those who do because sometimes it truly is the best choice out of a list of bad choices.

      Jun 8, 2011 at 7:32 am   rating: 90  small thumbs up

    • #11.7   iruleuruniverse

      I think there are good and bad HOAs wherever you look. We live in an HOA and have ZERO issues with them; the rules are there for a clean and safe, albeit cookie-cutter community, and it fits our life style right now. As someone else said, I’d rather have an HOA than cinder-blocked car or 3 foot tall grass in the yard next to mine. To each their own!

      Jun 8, 2011 at 7:54 am   rating: 90  small thumbs up

    • #11.8   bookworm

      The HOA in my mom’s neighborhood only had homeowners chop down tall shrubbery if it got in the way of drivers being able to see the road. Like the idiots who lived on the corner and decided it would be awesome to line their yard with trees. Want privacy? Try planting them closer to windows.

      Jun 8, 2011 at 8:37 am   rating: 90  small thumbs up

    • #11.9   The Elf

      Did they have to use a herring?

      Jun 8, 2011 at 8:49 am   rating: 90  small thumbs up

    • #11.10   Canthz_B bang

      The only thing I have against HOAs is that they prevent some potentially awesome PANs being posted.
      I suppose there are some that are run by power-hungry freakazoids, but I suspect most are just trying to balance freedom and community standards.

      Oh, well…six of one and half a dozen of the other is pretty much how life works. My mom’s HOA has pretty reasonable rules, and her sub-division is a really nice place.
      A certain degree of uniformity does have its place for some people.

      Jun 8, 2011 at 9:55 am   rating: 90  small thumbs up

    • #11.11   Jimmy James

      I grew up in a place with a pretty strict HOA rules- one friend was told he had to replace what they considered a Tudor-style door on a raised ranch-style home. Remember that X-Files with the Tibetan garbage monster that killed you if your porch light burnt out? Like that.

      But my favorite story was when an aunt (same neighborhood and HOA) had to get rid of some scrap lumber, and left it on the curb. The trashman tells her, “Oh, this wood has been treated with XYZ. Technically, you need a permit to dispose of it, but that’s a big hassle. If I were you, I’d just burn it in my yard. It’ll be fine.” She tells him that they’re not allowed to do that, and he’s stunned. “You pay HOW much to live here, and they don’t even let you burn trash in your own yard?”

      Jun 8, 2011 at 12:27 pm   rating: 90  small thumbs up

    • #11.12   Citrico

      As someone who has both neighbors with cars up on blocks and some who have yet to cut their grass this year, it’s honestly not that bad.

      Jun 8, 2011 at 1:03 pm   rating: 90  small thumbs up

    • #11.13   Seanette

      From what little I know on the subject, that “X-Files” episode about an out-of-control HOA was apparently not an exaggeration.

      Jun 8, 2011 at 2:17 pm   rating: 90  small thumbs up

    • #11.14   Canthz_B bang

      Citrico, when can I expect to see you on The Jerry Springer Show? LOL

      Jun 9, 2011 at 12:57 am   rating: 90  small thumbs up

    • #11.15   lagne

      Yeah, I guess it’s a matter of what you value more. I can see how (reasonable!) HOA regulations can make life easier if you want to live in a neighborhood with such standards. I prefer wide-open spaces, geographically-distant neighbors, that kind of thing (and, like canthz said, the ripe PAN possibilities of neighbors who have no business critiquing your property. hehehe).

      Jun 9, 2011 at 2:58 am   rating: 90  small thumbs up

    • #11.16   Rattus

      I could not be paid to live in an area with an HOA or with the people who are willing to give up their freedom in exchange for conformity. Give me the liberty to plant whatever the hell I want, paint my house whatever the hell colour I want, hang my laundry in the sun whenever the hell I want, and I’ll put up with my neighbour’s unshaven lawn. Our city has by-laws about cars in one’s front yard, so that takes care of itself.

      Jun 9, 2011 at 9:43 am   rating: 90  small thumbs up

    • #11.17   quatfaux

      Absolutely. Cars on blocks? Check. Untended lawns? Check. Chickens in backyards? Check. I painted my house orange with blue and cream trim and the neighbors love it? Check. What fun is life without a little chaos??

      Jun 9, 2011 at 11:21 am   rating: 90  small thumbs up

    • #11.18   Rattus

      It’s no effin’ fun at all. Oh god, I weep just to think of my entire life being equivalent to the cubicle farm wherein I spend my unhappy days. Let chaos reign, my friends, let it reign, and drink a toast to all the joy it can bring.

      Jun 9, 2011 at 11:33 am   rating: 90  small thumbs up

    • #11.19   Chesire Cat

      I also refuse to live in a HOA. We found a nice neighborhood that was nice without a HOA. I can keep my kids toys in the yard and put up swingsets. I can put up decorations for holidays. I can park cars in my driveway.

      Honestly most people keep their property nice enough around here and for the ones that don’t. Who cares!? I don’t. As long as my property is okay that is all that matters. I really am not that bothered by seeing cars on blocks as long as it is not in my yard. No one has cars on blocks around here but you get my point.

      Jun 9, 2011 at 6:46 pm   rating: 90  small thumbs up

    • #11.20   Canthz_B bang

      What part of “…for some people.” was so hard to understand?
      What part of “Your freedom ends at your neighbors’ noses (or property lines or ears for that matter)” is so hard?
      I fully understand that, for some people, rules of any type are perceived as onerous, all I’m saying is that some of us like many if not most of the rules…they keep you away from us.

      You want hens and roosters? Fine…in a rural area. But not everyone in a suburban subdivision wants to hear your rooster all morning. HOA’s help those who do not know how to be considerate of their neighbors be so.
      Do you think your neighbor who may suffer from migraine headaches wants to hear a rooster every 13 seconds for a few hours each morning? Not that roosters are bad, but they are not ideal for certain living situations. Situations such as having neighbors in close proximity.

      Unwrap the freedom flag already. It’s about learning to live together in peace in a visually attractive environment.
      Now if you think junk cars on cinder blocks upon front lawns is attractive, more power to you. Same if you think untended lawns (great habitat for rodents and other vermin) are nice.
      That’s no reason to think someone else might not like what they consider to be more pleasant surroundings. That they’re giving away some birthright to freedom. They are, in fact, exercising their freedom to be free of such things.

      A real freedom supporter would support their freedom to form HOAs to keep their space the way they want and like it to be within the law.

      I wouldn’t want my neighbor to blast heavy metal music at maximum volume any time of day or night, and he or she probably wouldn’t want me to do the same with Coltrane or Funkadelic. Believe it or not, sometimes rules are good.
      As I’ve said, I have no HOA…but I have a lease which clearly states what I may and may not do. This in order to keep the peace and livability of our shared community intact. For example, we cannot have indoor furniture on our patios. We’re restricted to, of all things, patio furniture on our patios. I suppose that’s because indoor furniture belongs indoors, and patio furniture belongs on patios…but some people don’t get things like that unless they are told (and no, the bench seat from a ’72 Pontiac Ventura is NOT patio furniture), and I don’t find that an unreasonable thing to ask of me.

      But here’s a thought: if HOAs give you grief everywhere you go, you may just be a bad neighbor. HOAs are made up of members of the community. If you don’t like the rules the HOA, e.g. the community makes, join it and try to make change…or move.

      Some communities have a certain character. Your “freedom” to paint your house hot pink for example (the phrase “stick out like a sore thumb” comes to mind) would not be in keeping with the character of a community of adobe-colored homes. That would destroy the character of the community, and that community character is probably one reason many of your neighbors chose to live there in the first place.
      You’re saying you should be “free” to ruin that character for everyone else just because you want to…and that’s commonly called being selfish…not freedom.
      I feel no need to defend a supposed right to be inconsiderate nor irresponsible.

      I hope that’s all really very easy to understand.

      Jun 10, 2011 at 12:08 am   rating: 90  small thumbs up

    • #11.21   Canthz_B bang

      CC, if you don’t have neighbors with cars on cinder blocks rusting away in their yards, how can you say that wouldn’t bother you?
      No high grass harboring field mice which invade your home? How can you say that’s not so bad?

      “As long as my property is okay that is all that matters.” The very definition of “selfishness”.
      Fact of the matter is, if enough of your neighbors DON’T keep their property up to code, it WILL affect your property.
      Short term selfishness can lead to long term grief.
      So your neighbor doesn’t cut his grass for a few months. It’s not your grass, so you don’t care. But termites like that nice high grass, move in and soon invade your home. Does it affect you and your property/investment at that point?

      An ounce of prevention, my dear.

      I’ve lived in some really shitty neighborhoods, and now that I can afford not to, I don’t wish my nice neighborhood to become ghettoized, red-neck-ized or barrio-ized.
      Any person, of any stripe, who lives like a civilized human being would be a welcomed neighbor.

      If a homeowners association or well-enforced lease agreement secures those conditions for me, I’m a happy man.
      Again, I feel no need to defend a supposed right to be irresponsible.

      Jun 10, 2011 at 2:19 am   rating: 90  small thumbs up

    • #11.22   Chesire Cat

      But you ignore the fact that there are actually city laws that cover most of the stuff you mentioned. If the grass gets too long, you can call the law and complain and they will ticket the person. If they are making a lot of noise you can file a noise complaint to the police. You don’t have to have a HOA to handle that. If you like HOA, great. Live with one. Some people avoid them for good reason.

      Because HOA are usually over the top. They don’t worry about the real problems. They will cite you for tiny cosmetic things that really don’t hurt anyone or amount to a hill of beans. Like my friend’s HOA they are only allowed to have a wood swingset in their fenced in private back yard. No metal. Who the hell cares!? Its in the back yard with a privacy fence. No one would have to see it either way! They just want to be uppity about it and the wooden ones cost more.

      That is the kind of bull I avoid HOA.

      Jun 10, 2011 at 6:41 am   rating: 90  small thumbs up

    • #11.23   The Elf

      I don’t like HOAs either Rattus. But my choices at the time were 1) Apartment and 2) Townhome w/ HOA. Apartments are even more regulated than the HOA townhomes, and it was half the space for rent as costly as a mortgage so it seemed a no-brainer to me. Ironically, living without the kinds of regulations that come with either renting or living in an HOA community costs a lot around here.

      So, I signed up for residential conformity and let my freak flag fly in other ways. I can think of worse things than crazy parking regulations and not being forced to grow my basil in a pot instead of in the ground.

      Jun 10, 2011 at 7:25 am   rating: 90  small thumbs up

    • #11.24   Rattus

      I’ve always had a thing against HOA’s, but the final straw for me, the one that comfirmed that I would rather die than live in a HOA community, was the parents of a co-worker of mine receiving a call from their HOA at 6:00 am because the co-worker, who was visiting her parents for the weekend, had left a bathing suit hanging over the railing on the back deck overnight to dry. That was a fineable offense in this particular community. Honestly, I don’t have much respect for anyone who would voluntarily live under such a fascist regime.

      Jun 10, 2011 at 7:37 am   rating: 90  small thumbs up

    • #11.25   Canthz_B bang

      No, CC, I’m not ignoring city ordinances, but you’re ignoring that if you follow a HOA’s rules your local constabulary will have more time to fight crime rather than answering noise complaints and other frivolous civil matters, as HOA rules generally conform to local city ordinances, I think you’ve just agreed to some HOA rules.

      I think you are both over-generalizing and over-reacting. You know of a few over-reaching HOAs and that makes them all bad and the concept overt oppression?
      “Fascist regime” pretty much confirms that. Bring your rhetoric down a notch. No HOA ever sent a tenant to a concentration camp. You don’t get the death penalty for breaking any HOA rule.
      I don’t rail against communities which refuse to rent to smokers. I defend their right to do so even though I disagree and don’t sign a lease to live there. I sure as hell don’t call them fascists, I just call them idiots I’d rather not live around and move on.

      Actually, my lease at my apartment complex has a prohibition against hanging clothing, towels, etc. out over railings (I’m guilty of doing the unthinkable and actually reading my lease agreement before signing it). It’s an eyesore to some and our units have washers and dryers. I’d be the fascist who called the management office on the parents of a co-worker of yours, because the rule is a very simple one…follow it like a grown-up.

      Fact is, no one is stopping you from doing so many more things in a HOA community than you are prohibited from doing, that conforming to a few COMMUNITY rules shouldn’t be so hard. Since you’re not forced to live in a HOA community, I don’t see what the big deal is. You don’t like them. Fine. Some people do, and that’s fine as well.
      It has nothing to do with fascism vs. freedom. It has to do with quality of life…and we all have differing opinions on just what that is. ;-)

      Jun 10, 2011 at 9:00 am   rating: 90  small thumbs up

    • #11.26   Rattus

      If you google “home owners associations fascists”, you get 362,000 results, so apparently I’m not alone in my opinion.

      Jun 10, 2011 at 10:29 am   rating: 90  small thumbs up

    • #11.27   The Elf

      Hello Godwin! Fancy meeting you on an internet thread.

      Jun 10, 2011 at 10:45 am   rating: 90  small thumbs up

    • #11.28   Canthz_B bang

      Not being alone does not make you right. Just one of a number of people who agree with you.

      Jun 10, 2011 at 10:49 am   rating: 90  small thumbs up

    • #11.29   Rattus

      Thank you for iterating my “not alone” comment. And one of the people who would have agreed with me if he was still alive would be Roosevelt : “The first truth is that the liberty of a democracy is not safe if the people tolerate the growth of private power to a point where it becomes stronger than their democratic state itself. That, in its essence, is fascism — ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power.”

      And The Elf, my comments relate more to Mussolini than to Hitler – what law applies to ol’ Benito?

      Jun 10, 2011 at 11:06 am   rating: 90  small thumbs up

    • #11.30   The Elf


      Jun 10, 2011 at 11:14 am   rating: 90  small thumbs up

    • #11.31   Who passed out the Haterade?

      Rattus: I absolutely love the Roosevelt quote, but I don’t think it really applies in this situation. Or rather, it only applies very loosely.

      Overweening private power is (just for one of hundreds of examples) a health insurance company holding the power of life and death over people depending on which is more profitable to them, then crying about supposed government “death panels” when they’ve been running them for decades. Not a HOA constraining someone who uses their freedom to give up their freedom.

      If someone wants to let others demand that everyone obey the rules of the most anal person on the block, good for them. They at least had a genuine choice in where to live, by contrast with the “choice” to pay unaffordable premiums or to pray your new employer’s insurance will be slightly less vulturesque. And maybe the perceived increase in property value is worth more to them than being able to choose what color socks they’re “allowed” to wear.

      Jun 10, 2011 at 1:02 pm   rating: 90  small thumbs up

    • #11.32   lagne

      As patently RIDICULOUS as I think it would be to call the HOA office to report an offense as minor as draping a bathing suit over a fence (sorry, canthz, it’s a “choose your battles” thing to me; bathing suit draped over fence doesn’t have to equal “slippery slope to cinderblocks and overgrown lawns”)… it all comes down to personal responsibility. If you move into an HOA community (or have a super-strict lease), better be prepared to follow all of the rules you signed up for. If you sign up for it, then gripe about how stupid the rules are (or, worse, openly flout the rules), that’s childish, and the resulting issues you’ll face are nobody’s fault but yours.

      I would never, ever live under a HOA. For people who want what HOAs offer, I’m sure they’re great. Really, considering HOAs totally “bad” has all to do with what you want out of them. Even the super-crazy controlling examples I gave above would be considred great HOAs to whoever finds them appealing.

      Jun 10, 2011 at 4:07 pm   rating: 90  small thumbs up

    • #11.33   Canthz_B bang

      LOL, lagne…I was just being over-the-top. I’d really not call over such a small transgression, but I was pointing out that I’d have a right to do so if I wished simply because that person is breaking their lease…and some anal retentive dipwad could report them. So why not just put you wet swimwear and towels into your dryer and avoid that possibility in the first place?
      The point was that rules are really simple to follow if you want to avoid a hassle…just read your documents before you sign them.
      It’s like the parking ticket note some time ago. Don’t get angry when you get caught breaking the rules, try knowing and following them instead.
      My lease agreement lists the rules. I follow them and haven’t been bothered by anyone. I have more than enough freedom to do pretty much what I please. I don’t disrespect my neighbors’ space, and they don’t disrespect mine. It’s mostly a nice, quiet, relaxing place to live and I have no complaints.

      I honestly don’t think the rules of the most anal retentive person on the block are normally supported by most HOA votes, so I wouldn’t worry about that happening.

      The main point I’m trying to make, however, is that painting HOAs with a broad brush as all being overly controlling monster organizations is probably going a little too far.
      While I am more than certain there are some that could be described as oppressive, I’m also more than certain there are some reasonable and responsible ones like my mom’s.

      Jun 10, 2011 at 9:28 pm   rating: 90  small thumbs up

    • #11.34   Canthz_B bang

      Here’s a quick example of what good some rules and regulations can do.

      I just got back from walking my dog and saw that some idiot left the gate to one of the swimming pools propped open.
      If you know how many toddlers drown in unsecured pools each year in Arizona, you’d probably say there should be a rule against propping the gate to a pool area open.

      Well, there is one. Some numb-nuts is just too inconvenienced to use his key, too contemptuous of rules, or too inconsiderate of the lives of his neighbors’ children to be bothered. :roll:

      Jun 10, 2011 at 10:00 pm   rating: 90  small thumbs up

    • #11.35   Who passed out the Haterade?

      I just realized: This thread has liberal posters arguing against intrusive rules and regulations (i.e. comparable to “big government”), and conservative posters arguing in favor of them for the sake of peace and security. How the heck did that happen?

      My two cents: It might be partly a result of the previous decade, and the repeated demands to give up our freedoms lest “the terrorists win”. (Case in point: The nudiescanners at the airports.)

      Jun 11, 2011 at 6:03 am   rating: 90  small thumbs up

    • #11.36   Rattus

      That’s because liberals believe in actual liberty, not that spurious approximation guaranteed by a conservative government. You know, the government that won’t let you do what you want with your flag, your non-Christian place of worship or your best friend’s ass.

      Jun 11, 2011 at 11:02 am   rating: 90  small thumbs up

    • #11.37   Canthz_B bang

      LOL, You really think I’m a Conservative?

      There are about 6 black Conservatives, and I ain’t one of them. I’m a Moderate Democrat (HeeHaw!), so call me a jackass. :lol:
      And I’m not arguing for All rules, I’m just not against reasonable rules.

      We like to call that civilization.
      Nor am I arguing that everyone should live in a HOA community, just that those who choose to do so aren’t some kind of sell-outs.
      I’m not arguing at all really, just presenting a little balance, as I can see both sides on this one. HOAs are good for some people, while others despise them. To each his own.

      Hell, if you believe in God, you’ll note that He supposedly sent Moses some rules to live by to keep society civil. God was apparently the Father of all HOAs…the home being Earth. ;-)

      “If you don’t like the rules the HOA, e.g. the community makes, join it and try to make change…”

      That’s not Fascism, that’s democracy in action be you Conservative or Liberal. Moving out with your bottom lip poked out because you don’t like some simple rules does nothing to affect change, so there’s really no point in complaining about a situation you’re not willing to try to change.
      If you happen to live in a place with a HOA you consider overly-oppressive and overly-intrusive, I’d suggest canvassing your neighbors for support and running for a position on the board so as to represent them and make their concerns known.
      That too is how democracy works, and how HOAs work best. You have all the freedom in the world to try to be elected to the HOA board and change the rules…I think, it may depend on the association and how it’s organized, so I can’t be sure about that.

      Jun 11, 2011 at 11:43 am   rating: 90  small thumbs up

    • #11.38   Canthz_B bang

      Fact is, those who choose NEVER to live under the rules of a HOA, still live by certain rules of conduct. They just happen to like making those rules for themselves, and so conduct themselves by their own rules. They aren’t any more free. They are simply stuck inside their own concepts of right and wrong instead of those of someone else.
      Unwilling or unable to appreciate the points of view and needs of others, they are not freed by, but imprisoned by their own closed-minded, non-negotiable worldviews.
      Living in a black and white world of HOAs are either good or bad, never fully appreciating that there is a middle ground and that compromise usually works best in interpersonal relations based situations such as maintaining social order.

      John doesn’t like Juan’s gigantic Puerto Rican flag. Juan counters by complaining about John’s loud music.
      A HOA can either ban all flags, make all flag flying officially acceptable, limit the size of displayed flags, or do nothing and watch John and Juan come to blows over it.
      A HOA can ban loud music, permit loud music at any time of day or night, set certain times when quiet must be kept, or watch John and Juan come to blows over it.
      Either way, once a rule is established, it becomes much less likely that John will kill Juan or Juan will kill John if both respect whatever rule has been established.

      Understand that rules are not made in a vacuum. HOAs normally are forced into making rules because of the situations feuding residents bring before them. They don’t do it just to have fun.
      The Hattfields and McCoys might have benefited from some impartial body setting some standards.

      No one gives up their freedom by consenting to rules with which they are in agreement. They are living by the rules they like. They are, therefore, exercising their freedom to live within and protected by those rules.
      Only those who would live under rules with which they disagree give away their freedoms. And most people in my part of the world are not forced to do that.

      Again, I don’t see the big deal and the heightened emotions displayed by some over this issue…it ain’t rocket surgery.

      Jun 11, 2011 at 5:57 pm   rating: 90  small thumbs up

    • #11.39   Rattus

      It would seem, based on sheer verbosity, that the greatest height of emotion is yours. I hate the very idea of an HOA, I refused to tolerate life under that particular regime, end of any thoughts on the matter.

      Jun 11, 2011 at 9:29 pm   rating: 90  small thumbs up

    • #11.40   Canthz_B bang

      And you have every right under the sun to live however you wish. You refused to live under “that particular regime” and didn’t fight to change it. You moved away, as is your right. Give me Liberty, or give me U-Haul. What’s that to me?

      Verbosity does not equal emotional intensity. It equals a level-headed exchange of ideas sometimes though. However, refusal to even consider rational thoughts on a matter just may. No one is asking for you to agree or change.

      I really care not about your life-style choices, but am quite interested in reading (not emotionally aroused by) your refusal to consider that more than one point of view (in this case your own) may have its share of merit.

      I’ve never said your point of view has no merit, just that other points of view are equally valid.

      Does “Nor am I arguing that everyone should live in a HOA community, just that those who choose to do so aren’t some kind of sell-outs.
      I’m not arguing at all really, just presenting a little balance, as I can see both sides on this one. HOAs are good for some people, while others despise them. To each his own.”
      really sound overly emotional to you?

      Sounds quite fair-minded to me (not having expressed any hate of any entity or refusal to consider other points of view than my own even if I reject them in the end), but I’ll apologize for having too many insights to convey on the issue rather than having a one-dimensional, single-minded view if it smooths things over at all. ;-)

      Jun 11, 2011 at 10:39 pm   rating: 90  small thumbs up

    • #11.41   The Elf

      Lol, for the record I am conservative (the libertarian kind), and I dislike HOAs. I lived in an HOA community only because my other choices were just as bad or worse, and I am happy that I can afford not to now. I really don’t like anyone telling me what to do with my property – the government or a private organization.

      Jun 11, 2011 at 11:01 pm   rating: 90  small thumbs up

    • #11.42   Who passed out the Haterade?

      You’re right, The Elf… a genuine conservative should be expected to dislike HOAs, while a genuine liberal should be indifferent or positive to them except in cases where the HOA rules are reactionary (which is the case much of the time, but not all). What I had in mind, but didn’t say, was “right-wing” and “left-wing”, i.e. the sides that call themselves conservative and liberal.

      You could call it the Buffalo Springfield phenomenon: A thousand people in the street / Singing songs and carrying signs / Mostly say, hooray for our side. If “my side” is right-wing, then anything a right-wing president does is great even if it plunges the nation into crippling debt and practically abolishes the 1st, 4th, 5th, 6th, and 8th Amendments. If “my side” is left-wing, then anything a left-wing president does is great even if it supports small-minded bigotry and continues wars of aggression.

      For my part, I’m “liberaltarian”, i.e. “GTFO my business unless there’s a strong interest for the good of others.” Thing is, the most powerful form of government these days isn’t political – it’s corporate.

      Think about it… how many decisions made by the political government coercively affect you on a day-to-day basis? By contrast, how many decisions made by a credit bureau or insurance company (judicial), management (executive), or board of directors (legislative) do the same? How much say do you have in them? And how likely is the political government to bow and scrape and obey the wishes of corporate government because they hold the real power?

      It’s likely we don’t agree, but to me it’s necessary to be “liberaltarian” because the political government has become the last countervailing force against the abuses of de facto corporate government. (Shy of a socialist revolution, which I’m sure we agree would end badly). A “check and balance”, even if it is a very weak one.

      Jun 12, 2011 at 4:29 am   rating: 90  small thumbs up

    • #11.43   Rattus

      I didn’t “move away” without changing things, I’ve never lived under an HOA and I never will. My familiarity with them is due to friends/coworkers living in such circumstances. Well, coworkers, actually. I’m a bit of a misanthrope and am quite fussy about whom I spend my time with, and those I like most tend to chafe under the yoke as much as I do.

      And I don’t give a rat’s ass if people choose to live their lives that way, any more than if they choose to thump the bible or breed like jackrabbits. As long as they leave me the hell alone.

      Jun 12, 2011 at 11:38 am   rating: 90  small thumbs up

    • #11.44   bookworm

      Arguing with Canthz_b is like slamming your head repeatedly into a concrete wall. All you walk away with is brain damage.

      Jun 12, 2011 at 11:56 am   rating: 90  small thumbs up

    • #11.45   Chesire cat

      I am conservative/libertarian and I also hate HOA.

      Mostly because I like the right to be my own boss and if I work hard to pay for something, the hell anyone else is going to tell me what to do with it! I am a very considerate neighbor. As far as I know I have never had a complaint against my neighborliness. But I am also not a freak who will be offended by hanging my kids swimming suits to dry for a couple hours on my front porch. If someone is that easily offended, they can suck it!

      Also commenting on the guy leaving the gate to his pool open. Of course he should keep it shut. It was probably a mistake. Have a polite talk with him about it if you are really worried. But and this is from someone with small children, in the end it is the responsiblity of the parents to be watching their own children and prevent them from drowning in your pool. If my child drowns it is no one fault but my own. If my neighbors have pools and especially if I know they leave the gate open, it is my job to just watch my child that much closer, now isn’t it? He should be able to use HIS pool without worrying about everyone else.

      Jun 12, 2011 at 4:43 pm   rating: 90  small thumbs up

    • #11.46   Canthz_B bang

      Sorry for the length of this post, but I have three comments to respond to, and a clarification of position to make:

      My apologies, Rattus. I was unaware your views were formed not by personal experience with living unhappily in a HOA community, but by hearsay alone. You said “I refused to tolerate life under that particular regime”, and I mistakenly assumed you’d come up against it personally and moved out rather than conform or attempt to affect change. That reads as if you were saying you’d told a HOA to kiss your butt and that you were mad as hell and wouldn’t take it anymore, thereby exercising the personal freedoms you were talking about above with courage and gusto. I was wrong as you point out. You didn’t actually tell a HOA to kiss your ass, as you’ve actually never had one to refuse to tolerate.
      I agree with you that there are some types of people I don’t care how they live as long as they leave me the hell alone… from #11.20 above: “all I’m saying is that some of us like many if not most of the rules…they keep you away from us.”
      My lease, and some people’s HOAs keep the people they don’t want to live around away from them. Same goal, different strategy, same result. So we’re really almost on the same page on this issue if you’d stop and think about it.

      bookworm, don’t blame me for your brain damage. There really is no argument here, as I have said that there are some bad HOAs and there are some good ones, and that the choice of where to live is up to the individual.
      And at #11.8 you didn’t seem to have much against a HOA making a safety-conscious ruling regarding the height of shrubbery and the competing ability of drivers to view oncoming traffic.
      In fact, you went a step beyond the HOA ruling, suggesting not the height of the shrubs, but where they should be placed. Fascist?
      Brain damage indeed. Perhaps you don’t walk away with any more than you walked in with. Might I suggest you stop that concrete wall head-slamming thing? Apparently, it’s given you amnesia. I’ve never heard of a case where a simple, coherent rebuttal caused that. But if you cannot debate/argue with me without your brain sustaining substantial damage as a result, I’d suggest you cut your loses and stop trying before you’re left a blithering…never mind…already there. :-P

      CC, I agree. It is partly the fault of the parent not watching the child when a child drowns…no question about it, but I’ll not blame the victim. It still happens that sometimes children are not properly watched…so we gate our community swimming pools just in case for safety, and of course liability concerns. Locked pool gate = no drowning victim.
      There was no mistake with one of our community pool gates (not HIS pool). It was propped open deliberately, an obstruction having been put in place to ensure it would not close and lock…”propped open” not “left open”, that’s not a mistake, CC. That is a deliberate act.
      The gates are spring operated and will close and lock if not obstructed.
      That is irresponsible, inconsiderate, selfish, dangerous and wrong behavior done which defeats an in-place safety measure no matter how you look at it.
      As far as your friend’s HOA regarding wooden vs. metal swing sets and why one is allowed and the other banned, why not ask them why rather than making assumptions? I dunno the answer. Maybe you’re right and they’re just being uppity. Maybe they use well water and have a shallow water table and don’t want potential contamination from the metal ones leaching into the water table. Who knows? Just ask them. Otherwise, you’re operating just like Rattus, on hearsay alone, not having both sides of the argument to consider before you make a decision.
      Sorry, but I try not to make decisions based on half of the available information if I can help it.
      It’s been said that there are two sides to every story, and sometimes it pays to hear both sides, something neither of you have bothered to do. “Why?” is a really important question to ask oftentimes.

      I don’t think I’ve said anything controversial on those matters.

      Moving on, I will not say that I’ll NEVER live in a HOA community, because that decision would be contingent upon the actual rules of said HOA, not dictated by its mere existence.
      If their rules are reasonable and conducive to my life-style I can accept the terms and move in.
      If not, I wouldn’t do so. I’ll not deny myself a perfectly decent place to live just because there’s a HOA even if I agree with the positions the HOA takes.
      That’s how I define freedom of choice.

      I see nothing objectionable about taking that position. Seems really middle of the road to me, and doesn’t in any way take away from or disparage the rights of others to make other choices.

      So tell me, where do you find an argument as opposed to a disagreement again? Because I’m not making an argument that anyone is wrong, just making the point that there’s another way of looking at things…never said anyone is wrong and I’m right and there’s only one way to see this issue…that would have the potential to form an actual argument.
      Here, we have nothing but differing opinion. Nothing more, nothing less.

      Jun 12, 2011 at 5:37 pm   rating: 90  small thumbs up

    • #11.47   Canthz_B bang

      Oh, and Rattus,
      Considering the tens of millions who live in HOA communities (hundreds of millions if you extend the concept of rules to lease-holders and over several democratic countries), 362,000 who think they’re fascist isn’t really all that significant a number.

      If you Google “HOA supporter”, you get 7,370,000 results. Give it a go!! I don’t make this shit up, and you aren’t the only one who’s not alone. There seems to be about 20.36 times as many on the other side, if you choose to believe in sides on this issue, want to use that type of measure as a legitimate yardstick, and don’t bother to actually read what the results pull up and assume they all mean what you think they mean.
      Google pulls word associations, not points of view or website content. The number of search results does not necessarily mean the links support your position, so both your number and mine are meaningless.
      I think you already know that. I’ll give you that much credit, but please, don’t post bullshit here and think no one will notice, it won’t pass muster.

      “dog eats mushrooms” pulls “About 2,190,000 results (0.17 seconds)”. That’s a lot of dogs eating mushrooms, huh Master of Bogus Statistics?
      By your logic, many more dogs eat mushrooms than people think HOAs are fascist.

      I say we do something right away about these over 2 million mushroom-munching mongrels roaming the countryside based upon this Google result. Will you join me in my crusade?

      See how easily BS is exposed? :-P

      Jun 13, 2011 at 12:45 am   rating: 90  small thumbs up

    • #11.48   Who passed out the Haterade?

      How easily BS is exposed… you mean like this?

      If you google Canthz_B functional brain, you only get 33 results.

      However, if you google Canthz_B brain-dead, you get 625 results.

      QED, it’s almost twenty times more likely that Canthz_B is brain-dead than that Canthz_B has a functional brain.

      It’s derisively called argumentum ad Googlem for a reason… it’s ridiculously easy to manipulate Google results to mean whatever the hell you want them to mean.

      Jun 13, 2011 at 6:46 am   rating: 90  small thumbs up

    • #11.49   The Elf

      Obviously, we need to put HOAs on the list with indoor/outdoor cats and breast feeding.

      Jun 13, 2011 at 7:31 am   rating: 90  small thumbs up

    • #11.50   Rattus

      Tsk, Canthz_B, you really don’t understand facetiousness, do you? You should look it up in Wikipedia.

      Jun 13, 2011 at 7:32 am   rating: 90  small thumbs up

    • #11.51   Canthz_B bang

      Agreed, Hater…I think that’s what I was pointing out.
      That things like “haterade dumbass” will Google about 146,000 results (0.22 seconds…234 times more likely that haterade is a dumbass than that Canthz_B is brain dead [Canthz_B dumbass results in only about 146 results (0.26 seconds), so I'm less likely to be a dumbass than brain dead which is ass-backward on the face of it...and 1000 times less likely to be a dumbass than haterade, which is a stat I choose to accept as valid! :-P ]), but that that is meaningless for our purposes here. Just statistical bullshit in no way true or relevant.
      It is informative, however, that you decided to mention that fact after I did it, but not when Rattus did so.

      I think I do, Rattus…see Mushroom-Munching Mongrels comment above.
      I’ve already agreed with you ad nauseum that there do exist some really over-reaching HOAs, I don’t see what the problem seems to be here…

      Really, y’all are taking this far too seriously and sucking some air out of the room.

      Jun 13, 2011 at 8:47 am   rating: 90  small thumbs up

    • #11.52   Who passed out the Haterade?

      If I take your word for it that Rattus did, I would’ve if I had seen it. But I’ve spent too much time being amused at how happily you’ll lie your face off to express that as more than a vague hypothetical.

      I already took a look back before I posted the comment you’re challenging. I didn’t see such a thing, or I would’ve expressed it as “It’s bull no matter who says it.” And your word doesn’t mean nearly enough for me to waste time looking further. Link it, or lump it.

      Jun 13, 2011 at 9:23 am   rating: 90  small thumbs up

    • #11.53   Canthz_B bang

      Hater, my word is good, your research skills, however, are not as good as my word (or you’re the liar here):

      “#11.26, If you google “home owners associations fascists”, you get 362,000 results, so apparently I’m not alone in my opinion.

      Jun 10, 2011 at 10:29 am rating: 4″

      Linked it…didn’t lump it. :-P

      Yes, 4 people actually fell for that bullshit. Both you and I pointed out that that type of stat has no validity. Then Rattus back-pedaled furiously saying it was all facetiousness, as those caught with their asses in the wind often do (been guilty of that sin myself a time or two, so I know it when I see it).
      I thought your MO would be to call someone out on that right away, but apparently you only have one target in your sights.
      And no, I’ve told no lies here…the issue is hardly worth any, and you can’t lie on PAN…there are far too many intelligent people here who will catch you at that crap. And you can’t “lie your face off” and say you’ve read all of the comments when you obviously haven’t or the same will happen. Deciding I’m a liar and then stating it as a fact is just another weak tactic to use when you cannot point out any actual lies. Weak at best, pathetically petty in fact.
      Been here almost four years, so trust me on that.
      There really is not enough here to have an argument over, so I cannot see why some of you persist in trying to make one.

      I can be an ass sometimes, to be sure…but I have been more than judicious in my comments on this thread. I’ve agreed with some points made by those who think we are adversaries and disagreed with other points. It’s an interesting subject, but nothing to fight over.

      Jun 13, 2011 at 9:50 am   rating: 90  small thumbs up

    • #11.54   Rattus

      *snort* Backpedalling my ass. My later reference to looking it up in Wikipedia should be indication enough that I am capable of facetiousness. I suppose apologies are in order for not putting in the appropriate smiley face, but I don’t know how to do that in here, and I honestly don’t care enough about the sensibilities of those who are unable to read context to learn.

      Jun 13, 2011 at 10:12 am   rating: 90  small thumbs up

    • #11.55   Canthz_B bang

      Hmm, a simple “LOL” would have sufficed, wouldn’t it. Now the excuse is that you can’t make a smiley?…nice…back-pedal away.

      I never said you were not capable of facetiousness, just that you were not really being facetious with that particular comment.
      Not being interested in learning is a whole other ball of wax and speaks volumes. :roll:

      Jun 13, 2011 at 10:32 am   rating: 90  small thumbs up

    • #11.56   Rattus

      *sigh* Again, facetiousness on my part. It seems that you missed the last sentence where I indicated that I’m not interested in pandering to those who don’t understand context.

      If you don’t get it, then bad luck you.

      Jun 13, 2011 at 10:57 am   rating: 90  small thumbs up

    • #11.57   Canthz_B bang

      Sorry, I’ve lost interest in this non-issue. Not interested in a personality contest…that’s not what I do.
      The last few comments weren’t even related to the note or HOAs. Relax, release.

      Jun 13, 2011 at 10:53 pm   rating: 90  small thumbs up

    • #11.58   Chesire Cat

      Even if I read the HOA rules over and over and found not one rule I found unreasonable or unacceptable, I still would not live there. You know why? Because they always have a rule that they can change the rules or add rules at any time and you have to abide by the new rules or rule changes.

      So even if everything on there is cool, in the future, it could not be cool and then you are stuck. No thanks.

      Jun 14, 2011 at 11:11 am   rating: 90  small thumbs up

    • #11.59   Who passed out the Haterade?

      CB: “I’ve told no lies here…the issue is hardly worth any, and you can’t lie on PAN…there are far too many intelligent people here who will catch you at that crap.”

      Yes, there are people who will call out a lie for what it is. But that doesn’t stop people from trying to change their story a couple of times when you catch them at it – then double down and try to bluster and yell their way out of it – then finally just start pretending it never happened. As you well know, since that’s been your MO.

      Jun 14, 2011 at 4:00 pm   rating: 90  small thumbs up

    • #11.60   Canthz_B bang

      OCD much? I’d see someone about that.
      As you well know, I don’t yell or bluster, I just state facts…you don’t have to like them, just refute them if you wish and are able.
      Characterizing my comments as bluster reads well, but is meaningless.

      Jun 15, 2011 at 10:50 am   rating: 90  small thumbs up

    • #11.61   Who passed out the Haterade?

      Huh. I happened across an HOA agreement last night, and I’d have to say that that particular one was extremely reasonable. Ten rules, and every one of them banned a specific form of unequivocal douchebaggery (rather than being either ticky little bull5#*%, or creatively ambiguous to allow people to make up ticky little bull5#*%).

      It didn’t change my mindset… I still think most HOAs are probably reasonable, and if anything they probably swing toward the “ineffective” side of the spectrum rather than the “dictatorial” side. And I still think the risk-benefit analysis (i.e. the likelihood of a good HOA times the benefits thereof, minus the likelihood of a bad HOA times the grief it can cause) looks really unfavorable. But it was interesting.

      Jun 16, 2011 at 1:19 pm   rating: 90  small thumbs up

    • #11.62   Canthz_B bang

      CC, that’s not freedom…that’s fear (“Freedom is free of the need to be free. Free your mind and your ass will follow. The kingdom of heaven is within”). When you no longer feel the need to be free, you have reached freedom, and not before.
      Ever heard of a Grandfather clause?
      New residents must abide by the rules in place when they move in, existing residents may live by the rules in place when they moved in.
      If you moved in when dogs were allowed and they change the rules to no longer allow pets, they don’t make you get rid of your dog, you’re grandfathered. Even rules have rules. The world is not black and white, there are gray areas as well, so this needn’t be an either/or issue.

      Since FDR has already been quoted out of context on this thread, may I do so as well? “You have nothing to fear but fear itself.”

      You’d deny yourself a nice place to live because of a worry the rules may change in the future? Then tell us, just where on the planet you’d live, because everywhere is within the jurisdiction of some governing body of some type which could make rule changes.

      It’s the nature of the world…things change, people learn to live with change…sometimes organized groups of them make change then later other organized groups of people change things back, or at least get rid of the last change.

      That’s not bluster, “just the facts ma’am”.

      Jun 18, 2011 at 1:26 am   rating: 90  small thumbs up

    • #11.63   Canthz_B bang

      Hater, the facts speak for themselves, and you’ve called me a liar but not supported that by specifying a single lie, nor making a reasonable argument as to why I’d have anything to lie about on the internet where facts are easily verifiable in the first place.
      No hurt feelings here, but nice try. :-P

      Perhaps the only liar here is you, and you’re only lying to yourself. :mrgreen:

      But I’ll respond to this bullcrap nonetheless.

      You say you’ve found a reasonable HOA contract. That supports my position that they DO exist. Then you say you still think most are bad, as if you’ve read most HOA agreements, when you have not…really cannot.
      So, how can you have enough information to have that belief unless you just want to have that belief?

      I’ve agreed many times that many are over-the-top with their rules, but that doesn’t resonate in some minds for some odd reason about which I’ll not speculate much, but suspect has much less to do with facts than with feelings.

      All I’ve said on the matter is that we should keep open minds on that issue, take it on a case by case basis.
      Is that a bad thing to say? A lie?
      Did I pull a Goole search result out and put it up as proof of anything without saying that Google search results are not valid for for that purpose? Where am I guilty of deceit again? Because you really need to make that clear if you want to stand by calling me a liar.
      I mean, I’ve called people liars here before, but I also proceeded to show the holes in their stories afterwards, to back up my position in some way, shape or form. You think you can just say it and leave it at that?
      Okay then, I’ll just say you’re a liar and that will make it true. I don’t need to support that statement any more than you need to support yours by your rules, right? But, I’d probably start defending myself by saying that you’ve called me a liar and cannot back that up with irrefutable evidence because you’re a vindictive bullshit artist, still pissed off because I hurt your precious feelings quite a long time ago. ;-)

      As you’ve said, “link it or lump it.”…or make a public apology if you have the guts to do so. LOL…j/k, no apology necessary…I don’t know you nor do I give a care whether you happen to like me, because you will never know me…I hope. But that doesn’t mean I cannot share my thoughts on the matter with you. :-P

      Jun 18, 2011 at 4:05 am   rating: 90  small thumbs up

    • #11.64   Chesire Cat

      Canthz: Get over yourself. There are plenty of nice places to live with no HOA. I am living in one right now. Why are you so insistent people like HOA? If someone doesn’t like them, they can find a home without one. Which is exactly what we did. It wasn’t that hard either since we are poorer and most lower income neighborhoods don’t have HOAs. But we don’t live in a crappy neighborhood either. Everyone tows the line all on their own, go figure. A couple things show up that can be annoying, but I am not that OCD to freak out about it.

      Jun 20, 2011 at 7:14 am   rating: 90  small thumbs up

    • #11.65   Canthz_B bang

      CC, you’re again missing the point. I’m not saying anyone must like or accept HOAs, just not have irrational fear of them.
      All I’ve said on the matter is that we should keep open minds on that issue, take it on a case by case basis.
      Is that a bad thing to say?
      How many times must I say the choice is up to the individual for you to get that message?

      They (HOAs) are not all bad, and that you assume so, even after having read my more than “live-and-let-live” friendly position on the matter, makes me wonder how you could be so obtuse.

      You can say they’re all evil as much as you wish, but, not having read every HOA agreement yourself, I’d say you’d be overgeneralizing. And Over Generalization is one of the classic fallacies we learned in high school.

      I addressed what you had to say about your fear of changing rules by explaining grandfather clauses and how they work. you very conveniently ignored that I’d pointed out your ignorance of and about such things…thanks.

      You, CC, have expressed a fear of unknown possibilities. I’d suggest you study the issue and convert the unknown into the known.

      Jun 20, 2011 at 7:55 am   rating: 90  small thumbs up

    • #11.66   chesire cat

      You just like to argue for the sake of arguing don’t you?

      I am sure there might be some HOA out there that are just fine. I still don’t trust any one enough to live under one. My choice. I have no way of telling which ones are good or not since I am not psychic and I REALLY don’t want to end up in a bad one. So I choose to avoid it all together. Just because one seems reasonable at first does not mean it really is.

      If you hate something bad enough that living with it would make you miserable in your own home, then its a safe bet to avoid it all together.

      Like if you hated cats. You have heard a lot of bad stories about cats. You are very wary of cats. However, your friend gives you a cat that seems nice at first. Would you risk bringing that cat into your home even though you loathe everything about cats in general? Probably not. That is how I feel about HOA.

      Jun 20, 2011 at 9:49 pm   rating: 90  small thumbs up

    • #11.67   Canthz_B bang

      No. I’m not arguing with you, as I have said that choice is a good thing. Just trying to present an open-minded point of view on the matter. You may be arguing your particular point of view (perhaps “defending” is a better word), but I’m defending enlightened decision-making as opposed to close-mindedness…not HOAs.

      Psychic? You don’t have to be psychic. You just have to be literate.
      Read the rules and by-laws to determine if you find them reasonable. If so, you shouldn’t have a problem with it. If not, you have every right to decline to sign on for it. If you don’t understand legalese, just admit that to yourself and seek legal counsel before signing anything.

      But to say NEVER, without regard to what the particular situation may be? I just find that absurd and, to be frank about it, ignorant…my choice to be a reasoning being, not an argument for or against HOAs as there is no universal model for them such that I could possibly be against them all.

      Seems pretty easy to me. A lot easier to find out the facts of the matter contained within the four corners of a document than to speculate or make assumptions.

      You say you fear how “they” may change the rules, but fail to take into account that once you become a member of the community you become a “they”…you’re one of “them”, and have a say in the rules-making process.
      I may not like the rules all of them make, but I wouldn’t move in there. I’d move in where I agreed with the rules, and I’d fight against any changes I found unfair later on.
      HOAs don’t MAKE rules, they VOTE on them after input from the community (the ‘A’ stands for Association, not Autocracy). Participate if you don’t like what they propose.

      Now, your lack of trust in the written document is a whole other issue. One which I’d say is a personal one not suited for discussion here except to say that contracts protect both sides in a written agreement.
      That’s their very purpose. Whether you sign one is up to you and whether you’re OK with the terms, but no one can change the terms once the contract is signed unless both parties agree to the changes, you’re Grandfathered (unless you sign a contract which states that one side may change the terms at any time, like a credit card agreement), and your original agreement remains in place, so just READ THE CONTRACT BEFORE SIGNING IT. If not, you have no right to sour grapes.

      (contract law…which doesn’t cover how your gift cat may behave when accepted such that you could sue the gift-giver…you can sign a contract that you’re accepting a Persian, but no clause saying how that Persian will behave would be enforceable because you could never prove the behavior was innate and not caused by how you treated said Persian [are you really comparing cats to contracts? or just looking a gift cat in the mouth? :-P])

      Jun 21, 2011 at 12:54 am   rating: 90  small thumbs up

    • #11.68   The Dark One bang

      It always amazes me how you guys can turn to a topic that has very little to do with the original post.

      Jun 21, 2011 at 1:41 am   rating: 90  small thumbs up

    • #11.69   Canthz_B bang

      ♫ Let us entertain you.
      Let us make you smile.
      Let us do a few tricks.
      Some old and then some new tricks.
      We’re very versatile! ♫

      Jun 21, 2011 at 2:38 am   rating: 90  small thumbs up

  • #12   Jackdaw

    My favorite part is the beribboned Death chainsaw.

    Jun 7, 2011 at 7:55 pm   rating: 90  small thumbs up

    • #12.1   Donna Martin Graduates!

      My fave part is your use of beribboned :)

      Jun 7, 2011 at 8:46 pm   rating: 90  small thumbs up

    • #12.2   quat

      Beribboned Death Chainsaw is an awesome name for a band!

      Jun 7, 2011 at 10:32 pm   rating: 90  small thumbs up

  • #13   jimmy

    I would have made sure a “lead” on a possible story idea concerning an outbreak of ____ Disease among trees was sent to the local paper, and offer to give an interview concerning having to get trees removed “in order to save the rest of the local trees” (according to the Arbor Day Foundation). The foundation would probably be happy to “help spread the word” in a coordinating interview.

    Jun 7, 2011 at 8:10 pm   rating: 90  small thumbs up

  • #14   Emails That Suck

    The notewriter had to appease the dread Arbor God, you see. They donated one minute of service per dead tree in the making of this card to honor their fallen friends.

    They even drew the picture in pencil first to make sure they got it right, then used 8 – 8! – different markers throughout. Quality is important when your deity is a dread one.

    Without the notewriter’s labors, Henderson Road would be in the throes of a Treant rampage. At that point, even the Chainsaw Named Death could not prevail. Thank goodness for these selfless neighbors.

    Jun 7, 2011 at 8:14 pm   rating: 90  small thumbs up

  • #15   Angela

    The kicker is that felling 40 trees is serious money. We had one tree removed under similar circumstances and it was several hundred dollars.

    Jun 7, 2011 at 8:16 pm   rating: 90  small thumbs up

    • #15.1   Canthz_B bang

      You’re confessing to arboricide in writing?
      I wouldn’t bark that out. I’d keep it deep within the roots of my soul until the guilt leaves me no choice but to let the truth blossom.
      But I’m from a different branch of the family tree than you.

      Jun 7, 2011 at 10:30 pm   rating: 90  small thumbs up

    • #15.2   The Elf

      Exactly. Most people don’t cut down trees for fun. We had pay a lot for arborcide for a similar reason – tree was mostly dead, tree was huge, tree was right next to our bedroom. Thankfully it was just one tree and we still have more. And no, we will not be replacing it. What is different is that at least three neighbors talked to us about it! This little thing, called a conversation, was had.

      But I do wonder if I’m going to be getting a fancy Christmas card this year!

      Jun 8, 2011 at 7:38 am   rating: 90  small thumbs up

    • #15.3   behindbj

      I live in beautiful downtown Fair City and have the great fortune to have an actual tree in the yard of my rowhouse. Unfortunately, it’s one of those trees that needs to be pruned to nothing but trunk every so many years or it topples over/breaks apart/etc.

      So, I went about doing what needed to be done (with my trusty chainsaw – not “DEATH” branded, unfortunately). Had several neighbors actually stop and ask me what I was doing to the poor tree. I explained, they went on their merry way. Except one blowhard neighbor – sure I WAS KILLING THAT POOR TREE. WHY ARE YOU DAMAGING SUCH A NICE TREE! WHAT’S THE MATTER WITH YOU!

      Now, my tree is lush and safe to be around, gloriously green and awesome – and I never fail to mention his little tirade whenever I see him near my yard.

      So while I adore grown-up, adult communication skills – this sight would not exist if everyone had them. I guess it’s a toss-up…

      Jun 8, 2011 at 9:35 am   rating: 90  small thumbs up

    • #15.4   quatfaux

      As someone with some tree preservation training, I think your neighbors have a point. Sorry.

      Jun 9, 2011 at 11:23 am   rating: 90  small thumbs up

    • #15.5   wtf

      ‘Tree preservation’? You do know that trees die, right? They aren’t like houses… you can’t ‘preserve’ them forever! Give me a break!

      Jun 11, 2011 at 12:42 am   rating: 90  small thumbs up

  • #16   Hello there

    HAHA! “Death.” I’m really just impressed with this note. It looks like it’s a ready-made Hallmark card. Only it’s about felled Christmas trees. I want a copy now.

    Jun 7, 2011 at 8:25 pm   rating: 90  small thumbs up

  • #17   pony girl

    I am thinking that increasingly tacky and over-the-top decorations for every possible holiday are put up from now on.

    ps- I’m also thinking that the arborist’s report and that nasty card be copied, laminated, and put on display with the aforementioned displays.

    Jun 7, 2011 at 8:25 pm   rating: 90  small thumbs up

    • #17.1   clumber

      For a couple years when I was sharing a house with 2 friends I had known since pre-school and 2nd grade we decorated our xmas tree with those tree-shaped air fresheners. I’d like to think that scored fairly high on the tacky-continuum.

      Pro Tip : don’t open all the bags, in fact don’t open any. Just hang them in the wrapping or several migraines will visit you.

      Jun 8, 2011 at 7:45 am   rating: 90  small thumbs up

  • #18   Lu

    I live in GA and had my power go out for over a day this year after a storm because a tree fell on the lines. They were falling all over town downing lines and blocking streets. The trees in west GA are mostly tall, old, and likely to fall or have a downed branch in a storm.

    Jun 7, 2011 at 8:30 pm   rating: 90  small thumbs up

  • #19   Sarahj259

    The card writer has a point, imagine if a murderer killed 40 people and then put the victims clothes on maniquins and arranged them for the public to view. It’s the same thing!! (and by same I mean not at all.)

    Jun 7, 2011 at 9:12 pm   rating: 90  small thumbs up

    • #19.1   belle

      LOL !!!

      Jun 7, 2011 at 10:29 pm   rating: 90  small thumbs up

  • #20   pony girl

    This neighborhood has had an awful lot of pets go missing, and a man who pulls a gun on waggy-tail dogs.

    It may be time to move.

    Jun 7, 2011 at 9:18 pm   rating: 90  small thumbs up

  • #21   Canthz_B bang

    That’s what they get for moving in next-door to those ill-tempered apple trees from the Land of Oz.

    Jun 7, 2011 at 10:19 pm   rating: 90  small thumbs up

  • #22   easily distracted

    I wonder how much paper the anonymous tree lover went through before coming up with the finished project?

    Jun 7, 2011 at 10:47 pm   rating: 90  small thumbs up

    • #22.1   Canthz_B bang

      It really is quite polished and well done. As a frequent editor of my own comments, I’d say maybe 40 trees worth.

      Don’tcha just hate clicking “Print” a quarter second before seeing that typo?

      Jun 7, 2011 at 10:53 pm   rating: 90  small thumbs up

  • #23   EmKitteh

    That is really nicely drawn, and those trees were fucking delicious.

    Jun 7, 2011 at 11:00 pm   rating: 90  small thumbs up

  • #24   Ashley

    If they are so worried about trees and the environment, they should have asked the owners instead of wasting paper and ink(marker, etc).

    Jun 8, 2011 at 12:48 am   rating: 90  small thumbs up

  • #25   Grant

    Nice card. But didn’t they have “Danger, unsafe trees” notices put up in their front yard for a few weeks before they could arrange the removal?

    Jun 8, 2011 at 3:46 am   rating: 90  small thumbs up

  • #26   Cricket

    How many trees were killed to make the paper for that card? About 40 methinks.

    Jun 8, 2011 at 11:37 am   rating: 90  small thumbs up

  • #27   Bella

    Maybe you should replace the trees with 40 little wooded crosses made from their branches. In memorial.

    Jun 8, 2011 at 11:49 am   rating: 90  small thumbs up

  • #28   AndreaC

    You know this really pisses me off. First of all, we know the whole story and can certainly sympathize with the fact that diseased trees have to be cut out. But let’s assume that those guys decided to cut their trees FOR WHATEVER REASON. It is THEIR damn lawn and THEIR damn trees!!

    Maybe they don’t feel like raking 40 million pounds of leaves every year. Maybe they feel like having a little more sunlight enter their home. Maybe they just got tired of trimming them. Maybe they were afraid of a bad storm.

    So nosey ass neighbor: STFU. What’s it TO you if they cut the trees, huh?? Grow 40 more on YOUR yard jack ass.

    I hate neighbors that don’t mind their fucking business.

    Jun 8, 2011 at 12:29 pm   rating: 90  small thumbs up

    • #28.1   gotchan

      A local story in these parts a few years ago involved a lawyer who was annoyed that some trees obscured the view from his snazzy house. He had several trees felled and others topped. They weren’t on his property.

      When the property owner returned from being away, his neighbours were able to put him onto the company that did the work who gave up the lawyer when they realized (way, way late) he had no authority. The lawyer was charged with trespassing, vandalism, under the local tree protection bylaw as some of the trees were mature native species, and under the heritage act as at least one of the trees had been designated as historically significant.

      Throughout the media coverage of the story the lawyer remained unrepentant. He was exercising his right to the view. (No such right exists here.)

      Jun 11, 2011 at 1:58 pm   rating: 90  small thumbs up

    • #28.2   RP

      Does a right to a view exist anywhere? I could see the argument if they’d put up a huge brick wall taller than their houses right at the edge of the property but the trees were probably there before he was.

      Jun 13, 2011 at 10:14 am   rating: 90  small thumbs up

  • #29   mutzali

    We have over 30 trees in our suburban San Jose CA lot. We planted them all, some 30 years ago when we bought the place. There is one know-it-all neighbor/”professional gardener” that stops by every couple of months and offers to trim them for ridiculous amounts of money. I alwasy say (politely) “no, thank you. My husband and sons do all that.” Invariably, he tells me that these trees need special care from someone who knows trees, not amateurs. Our neighborhood was layed out in the 1940s. and each house had two matching trees in the front, one on either side of the walk. He’s advised way too many neighbors to remove the mature front lawn trees and replace them with crepe myrtles.

    So last time he came by, I pointed to two trees in the front yard and asked him what he would do with them. For the first, he told me that MAGNOLIAS like that need to be thinned out so they get enough light to flower right. I told him that PERSIMMON trees like that only bear fruit on the spurs he was offering to remove. When I then asked what he would do with the dogwood, he told me dogwoods can’t grow in our climate, so he would advise taking it out and putting in a nice crepe myrtle. (It’s a youngster, only been blooming here for 15 years….)

    And the redwood in the back, he says, must be over 100 years old and should be TOPPED!!! We planted it when we moved in, back in 1981. He’s not touching it.

    Jun 8, 2011 at 5:44 pm   rating: 90  small thumbs up

  • #30   Kimberly

    I took down 6 non-native trees that split during Ike. I had an angry neighbor confront me and my tree guy. Tree guy point out that the trees were destroyed. I won’t be planting trees to replace them because they were dangerously close to my house.

    Jun 8, 2011 at 6:39 pm   rating: 90  small thumbs up

  • #31   Sal

    When we moved into our house, there were a couple trees that were just huge and too close to the house and so we wanted to take them down. (We live on 3/4 acre and had about 60 trees at the time.)

    The arborist came, and agreed the two were just way too close to the house… but then started peeking around at the other trees and advised us to take down like 20 more. He felt they were probably dying and all were close enough that they could fall on our house.

    I made sure to tell EVERYONE that the trees were dying. Most neighbors were understanding; although one mourned our trees worse than we did and continually lamented to us how much she missed our trees.

    Then two years later we had a HUGE windstorm. We only had a few small branches fall; my lamenting neighbor had three trees fall in her yard; one took out her pool fence and part of her shed, another came within a couple feet of their swingset. Both, if the wind were blowing a different direction, would have hit their house.

    She wasn’t so lamenty after that.

    And yes, lamenty is a word. I will it to be.

    Jun 8, 2011 at 8:44 pm   rating: 90  small thumbs up

    • #31.1   Sal

      Oh, and tree guy was right; every single tree he advised us to take down was all hollow and black on the inside; of course only the two that were really close to the house that we’d wanted to get rid of in the first place were all strong and healthy. Luckily as you add trees to a removal price it only goes up incrementally; and we kept all the wood and now have an awesome stockpile for our woodburning stove. :)

      Jun 8, 2011 at 8:46 pm   rating: 90  small thumbs up

    • #31.2   Nunavut Guy

      I will use lamenty as oftenly as I can.

      Jun 8, 2011 at 9:41 pm   rating: 90  small thumbs up

    • #31.3   lagne

      I will it to be.

      Jun 9, 2011 at 1:07 am   rating: 90  small thumbs up

    • #31.4   RP

      It’s nice that you told people since there would be noise but otherwise I don’t understand why people care. It may be nice to live in a nice tree-lined neighborhood but your neighbor’s property is their own business.

      Exceptions: what they’re doing (or not doing) spills over into your property or becomes a safety concern. Letting bamboo spread out of your yard or having so much trash it attracts rats would be legit complaints.

      Jun 13, 2011 at 10:36 am   rating: 90  small thumbs up

  • #32   Bellaisa

    Sadly this is something that I might possibly do – so what have I learned? Things are not always as they seem, and these neighbors must have spent a lot of time thinking about this.

    Jun 9, 2011 at 5:25 pm   rating: 90  small thumbs up

  • #33   Chesire Cat

    Wow that person is a good artist. Yeah great description. If only they had put as much effort into finding out why you cut down the trees. Oh well, I would frame it and hang it in my hallway. Its a good conversation piece.

    Jun 9, 2011 at 6:40 pm   rating: 90  small thumbs up

  • #34   The_Great_G

    My family used to have a sweet gum, willow, and some small tree in our front yard. We got those removed because the sweet sum was diseased, the willow clogged our sewer every spring, and the other tree was dead. Now, the tri-colour beech out front is about twice the size it was when my family moved in and just as radiant purple as ever.
    In our back yard, we had a stand of pines that were topped off by the power company (people who owned the hose before us were told they wouldn’t grow that tall) because they grew into the lines, then taken down because they died. Finally, we got our maple removed because it was more carpenter ant than tree. Our big trees back there are still healthy as ever and the apple tree actually produces usable results. Last year, I sold my friends some extra iPhones it grew. This summer, with the extra rain for the roots and everything, I hope to grow an iPad.

    Jun 9, 2011 at 7:03 pm   rating: 90  small thumbs up

  • #35   nikki

    #1.5 Nunya
    Like most Americans?
    Where do you live? Most Americans love trees and beautiful plants.
    America is not New York and Los Angeles.

    uhhh eat me Nunya! I live in NY which by the way has ALOT of freaking trees. of course the city doesn’t have nearly as much but we have lots of trees there too…by the way, ever heard of the Adirondacks? or do you just spew shite from your mouth before thinking. Sorry, let me be more polite. Nunya, NY, your insidious comment aside, actually has a lot of forestry..please do some research before commenting on something you obviously are lacking knowledge on…Thanks.

    Jun 15, 2011 at 6:07 pm   rating: 90  small thumbs up

    • #35.1   The Dark One bang

      You know, there’s this little thing called a reply button for a reason.

      Jun 21, 2011 at 1:43 am   rating: 90  small thumbs up

  • #36   grammertron5000

    theres’ ? what’s that even supposed to mean?

    Jun 17, 2011 at 4:27 pm   rating: 90  small thumbs up


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