Writes Megan in Canada: “Found this in my room one night. No warning, no talk. Classy and cowardly.”
related: Trading up
FILED UNDER: Canada · moving/not moving · roommates
H for Toy
Don’t worry, Megan, scroll through the last few months here at PAN, and you’ll find a couple potential roommates.
Oct 20, 2013 at 11:15 pm rating: 31
Sheesh! If the note writer didn’t want hard feelings she should have talked to Megan about her feelings instead of writing the note. They may have even worked out their difficulties and become friends, or at the least become cordial roommates.
Oct 20, 2013 at 11:19 pm rating: 18
It’s hard not to have hard feelings when someone leaves a note that contains “its” when they mean “it’s.” I mean, really. How much thought could she possibly have put into the writing of that cowardly letter? Presumably she proofread it to make sure it contained all that she wanted to say and decided “Yup, that conveys my thoughts in every particular regarding Megan’s future living arrangements as they relate to my person.”
I’m guessing Megan’s not on the lease then. Not sure what the rules are in Canada about this sort of situation. If she knows how to properly use an apostrophe, I’m thinking she can knock some money off the rent.
Oct 20, 2013 at 11:56 pm rating: 46
JK: You must be a lot of fun at parties.
Oct 21, 2013 at 4:32 am rating: 37
She should have stuck with her original “it is” rather than venture into more grammatically challenging territory.
Oct 21, 2013 at 10:12 am rating: 24
Don’t you mean “orthographically challenging”?
Oct 21, 2013 at 12:25 pm rating: 2
Joke’s on you Team Beasly. I stay at home with my cats. My indoor cats. (Sorry, that’s something one should not kid about around here. Apologies.)
In all seriousness, she doesn’t want to have any hard feelings? Of course not, that’s why she left the note. She’s not the one who’s gonna lose sleep, clearly. We know she didn’t take a lot of care with the decision or Megan’s feelings in part because of the way she left the note, how she said what she said, and because I cannot for the life of me tell whether she spells her name Carol or Carole. Is that an E? Did she finish the note and have a stroke. What IS that?
Oct 21, 2013 at 5:16 pm rating: 10
I assume an “e”. But given the strange names I’ve heard bandied about in the past couple of decades, I wouldn’t rule out “Carolq”
Carole is an unusual but not unknown variant of Carol.
Or she had a stroke.
Oct 21, 2013 at 7:23 pm rating: 7
To paraphrase one of the masters here (mamason), your attempt to apply Earth logic to passive-aggressive roommates brings only pain and confusion.
Oct 22, 2013 at 1:21 pm rating: 6
It could very well be Carole, which is the French variant of Carol. I see it pretty often here in Canada!
Oct 22, 2013 at 5:12 pm rating: 0
That’s how my roommate was, except I didn’t even get a note. She went to the RA and complained about me and got a new roommate a few weeks later.
I don’t even have any idea what I did, except disagree about what temperature the thermostat should be on and not talk very much.
Oct 20, 2013 at 11:46 pm rating: 16
I had a temp roommate issue once. We didn’t like each other and she insisted on having the room at around 65 all winter. I had pneumonia and she still wouldn’t shut the window. She was studying medicine. She’s the Patrick Bateman of med school.
Oct 21, 2013 at 9:00 am rating: 21
As someone who would keep the room at 80 if it were up to me (and, well, if that wasn’t a huge waste of resources in the winter – but I do it all the time in the summer), that sounds absolutely horrible.
Of course, if I’m living with someone, I compromise. 75 was a good medium for my ex-roommate (who is still one of my closest friends) who preferred 70. It was a temperature we could both tolerate without discomfort, even if it wasn’t ideal for either of us.
Oct 21, 2013 at 1:34 pm rating: 5
Yeah, that’s what my roommate did. It was the end of October and she had the AC on full-blast, even though she was always wearing sweatshirts that she could have taken off before freezing me to death. When I turned the air off one day, she stopped talking to me entirely and moved out.
Oct 22, 2013 at 10:39 am rating: 3
Women at my college seemed to believe that if you weren’t squealing and being BFFs with your dorm roommate (nay, the whole floor!) within a day of moving in, it wasn’t going to work out ever. The pack mentality was astounding. They only ever ate in giant groups as well; none were capable of going to the dining hall alone.
So it doesn’t surprise me that they’d try and drop a non-clone of themselves immediately if they could. They were vicious about who they associated with.
Oct 22, 2013 at 12:40 pm rating: 1
My house is generally at 68 or 69 (heh) in winter unless it’s below -30*C or so. Then I nudge it up to 70.
But honest to gosh, my house holds heat really well so if I had the heat up at 72 or higher, it’d be SWELTERING HOT in here.
Oct 24, 2013 at 1:16 am rating: 1
L, it sounds like the thermostat saying “68″ might not equal the house *being* 68, if 72 makes it “sweltering hot”. Do you have a thermometer or just use the thermostat setting?
Oct 24, 2013 at 12:45 pm rating: 0
There are SOME roommates that just don’t get it…. I had one of those! She walked all over me, and when I did finally stand up to her (after she moved her “ex” in thinking I wouldn’t notice) I got punched in the face! Sometimes the best way to get “rid” of someone is in a note!
Oct 20, 2013 at 11:47 pm rating: 13
KJY, I think your best solution would involve a couple of close friends, a pickup, and a few shovels.
Oct 20, 2013 at 11:54 pm rating: 42
KJY, I could never live with a “roommate” who uses “quotation marks” so “randomly.” That said, Jdaniel is on the right track.
Oct 21, 2013 at 6:36 am rating: 26
Okay I’m not sure what she meant by “rid”; maybe she meant that’s not her preferred phrasing even though that’s what others are saying, not sure. But by “ex” it’s pretty clear she meant that they claimed they were broken up but they still have sex.
Oct 23, 2013 at 2:26 pm rating: 3
I had a roommate once who told the Hall Manager that I was trying to steal her clothes (she was about a foot taller than me) and that we were arguing all the time (even though I was never in the room) and, without asking me about it, they moved her out. Nothing like coming back to the room and finding most of the furniture, the tv, the futon, and roomie have all vanished…
Oct 21, 2013 at 12:05 am rating: 8
I had a roomie inexplicably move out on me and let me tell you it is PURE BLISS. No idea what you’re upset about (unless you were incapable of getting your own tv – and I thought dorm furniture was supplied by the dorm?)
To get a dorm room all to yourself because your roomie bailed and there’s nobody to take their place…amazing. It was simply amazing. And I didn’t have to pay any extra for a double-size “single” room!
Oct 22, 2013 at 12:42 pm rating: 3
Tom and Emma, you guys are lucky, then, in that your roommates moved out. I came home from work one night and walked into the dorm…to find my stuff being moved out of my room.
Oct 29, 2013 at 7:17 pm rating: 0
That roomie I had was a bully! So I did what Emma’s roomie did. I moved out while she was at work! She realized she couldn’t afford the place (her good for nothing ex didn’t work) so she had to move out too. I moved back in after she left. Of course she left a total mess for me to clean up. But at least I got rid of them!
Oct 21, 2013 at 12:10 am rating: 12
We don’t have the whole story. On the surface, this looks cowardly, and it may be. On the other hand, the roomie could be a total mess, completely clueless, and perhaps psychotic. The note writer DID say “no hard feelings”, so maybe she’s frightened of her. Maybe the roomie carries a knife around and threatens to cut the note writer in her sleep. Hey, while we’re at it, let’s add drug dealing to the scenario. Mmmmm….I love a good psychotic, fill-in-the-blank, murder mystery.
Oct 21, 2013 at 12:14 am rating: 39
Short of psycho roomie type situation (in which case you might want to write out a restraining order instead of a passive-aggressive note), leaving a “break-up” note without any prior conversation attempting to resolve issues is really cowardly.
Oct 21, 2013 at 6:24 am rating: 11
It strikes me as weird, too. If they’re college roommates, moving out is easy but usually, the person with the complaints moves out. If someone was force-removed from a room, it was done by the building’s housing head because of a disciplinary problem (violence, drug/alcohol violation) and not by a PAN.
If they’re sharing a rented apartment, it’s extra confusing. If they have a shared lease, then one roommate can’t legally kick the other out because they are equally signed on the lease. If the note-writer is the head of the lease (or property owner) then legally she has to evict the roommate and give proper notice of eviction as well as cause according to her state law.
I’d definitely say it’s best to split up the roommate arrangement for sanity’s sake, but legally, this note has no teeth.
Oct 21, 2013 at 12:33 pm rating: 10
If the roommate is literally a dangerous psycho, leaving a note might actually be counter-productive to what you are trying to accomplish. I think calling the police would be a better first step.
Oct 21, 2013 at 1:36 pm rating: 4
My roommate in college did this, but she was the one moving out (next door, actually), leaving me with a double room for half the cost… So all in all my feelings weren’t hurt.
Oct 21, 2013 at 12:16 am rating: 28
LOL, think that’s bad? My last flatmate waited until I was in a city 5 hours away having meetings with my dissertation committee. She then emailed me to say that she wanted me out of the house and I couldn’t collect my stuff until I arranged a time convenient for her. No warning, no talking about it, nothing. Thanks to that passive-aggressive psycho, I spent 2 months sleeping on the floor of my office before everything got sorted. Crazy!
Oct 21, 2013 at 12:31 am rating: 10
Well you didn’t have to do as she wanted. You could have gone home when YOU wanted and gotten your stuff.
Oct 21, 2013 at 12:46 am rating: 23
Well, that is my assumption, anyway. I guess I should allow for there to be details to which we aren’t privy, details that would explain why you couldn’t get your stuff on your own terms.
4:45 a.m. And I have not slept yet. The person on the other side of this wall is snoring so loudly, it is unreal. I offered my nurse $200 to go elbow the person, but she laughed at that idea.
Oct 21, 2013 at 4:44 am rating: 14
Clearly, you need to write your “roomie” a passive-aggressive note. May I suggest “I CAN HEAR YOU SNORING!!” posted on the door? For maximum effectiveness, use pink glitter.
Oct 21, 2013 at 6:34 am rating: 27
Clearly we need to send Red some pink glitter and some kind of propelling mechanism, like a sling shot or a BB gun.
Oct 21, 2013 at 7:46 am rating: 11
My name is Princess!
To be really PA you could buy one of those recordable greeting cards, record the snoring and slip the greeting card under the door.
Oct 21, 2013 at 9:08 am rating: 23
Red, I think the laugh indicated that she is open to the offer, but she’s holding out for more money. Tonight offer her $300 and see what happens. If that doesn’t work, I think you should just creep into your roommate’s doorway around midnight, strike your best “Friday the 13th” Jason pose and stare (make a noise to wake him/her up, of course), but don’t speak even when spoken to – just pose and stare for a couple of minutes. Then turn and walk away slowly, never picking up your feet, just dragging them across the floor. Do this routine multiple times tonight, each time getting closer and closer to the patient. I’m guessing it will only take once or twice to make you look like a creeper and make your roommate to afraid to sleep for the next few nights. No sleeping = no snoring. You’re welcome.
Oct 21, 2013 at 9:38 am rating: 21
Red, you silly wabbit! You don’t think you pay all that money to the hospital to sleep, do you? Your neighbor is probably the type to sleep on planes too. Fie on them all. (-;
Sweet dreams to you when you can catch them!
Oct 21, 2013 at 11:15 am rating: 4
I mean, I am no lawyer and all, but I don’t think someone can legally lock you out of your place of residence with no warning. Even if you aren’t on the lease. You probably should have went back with the cops.
I live in NYC, and it’s pretty tenant friendly though, so YMMV.
Oct 21, 2013 at 11:37 am rating: 6
That’s true in my state too, esa. I almost went to jail for locking a relative out of my home. My name is on the mortgage, and she wasn’t even paying rent. She just overstayed her welcome and decided to quit her job and live off me. I asked her to leave several times before I finally changed the locks. (She said if I wanted her out, I would have to evict her – so I changed the locks.) The cops showed up at 2 a.m and threatened to haul me away. I went to the courthouse the next day and still had to give her another 5 days. At the end of 5 days, I had to go to court again for a writ to put her stuff on the curb, which took another few days. Turns out even though she wasn’t on my mortgage and we didn’t have a rental agreement, she was legally a resident there after a certain number of hours and she had some very defined rights to stay in my house. At times, it seemed she had more rights to my house than I did during the eviction.
Oct 21, 2013 at 1:03 pm rating: 16
Wow, Lil, that is seriously messed up.
That said, if you ARE paying rent, I’m pretty sure it’s illegal everywhere (and if it’s not, it should be, I mean holy hell) for your roommate to lock you out. Not to mention unbelievably shitty.
Oct 21, 2013 at 1:40 pm rating: 6
I’ve heard similar stories, Lil. This is why guests at my house aren’t allowed to unpack.
Oct 21, 2013 at 2:45 pm rating: 15
Red, have someone go out and buy you earplugs, STAT. (Don’t ask the nurse to get them…they will probably charge $45 for them. Hahaha)
Oct 21, 2013 at 7:42 pm rating: 2
Who passed out the Haterade?
Starting off by calling Carole “cowardly” for leaving a note might say more about Megan than she intended. To me, it’s vaguely reminiscent of someone who demands others’ “honest opinion” in such a hostile manner that no one would dream of giving an answer they won’t like.
Oct 21, 2013 at 4:44 am rating: 9
Possibly. We aren’t seeing the other half of the story. But I think, short of someone obviously unstable, that a roommates should probably try to work something out before going straight to GET OUT. It’s an apartment, not a haunted house.
Oct 21, 2013 at 6:31 am rating: 18
Sometimes the aggrieved room-mate just finds a better place to live where they’re more comfortable, so the situation becomes moot.
There’s no point in having a conversation trying to get the current room-mate to change when you already have another place lined up.
As the roomie that’s done the fade out once, I certainly fit into this scenario. While my situation wasn’t as bad as CMG2s below, it was similar. didn’t necessarily have to like the room-mates I was living with, but I certainly didn’t appreciate having my life choices and appearance disparaged with snide comments.
Yeah, I’m sure that it’s fantastic not having to work for a living because your rich parents send you money. But that doesn’t mean that you get to appoint me as the house maid/handyman because you’re too good to clean up your own shit and used to have a live-in maid when you lived at home.
These weren’t really move-out grievances in the grand scheme of things, and if I hadn’t found a better place I wouldn’t have moved out. The thing is I did.
Oct 21, 2013 at 7:42 am rating: 4
Uh, yeah, if she got a “MOVE OUT” note with no prior conversation: yes, that is cowardly.
Oct 21, 2013 at 1:45 pm rating: 3
Elf, hilarious! Maybe it IS a haunted house, and the evil roommates have been possessed by selfish, cowardly, anal, socially handicapped narcissists. I’m going to try this sometime. With holy water.
Oct 21, 2013 at 6:53 pm rating: 2
I lived with three other girls in a double apartment during a college internship. Got along with my actual roomie just fine, but the other two? Wow. Random guys over all the time, who I would have to make conversation with in the early AM trying to get ready for my morning shift while they all slept. Fighting with each other, like screaming and throwing things, and trying to get me and my roomie involved. They were up screaming and having their parties until 3 or 4 AM knowing I had to be at work at 5:30 AM. They started leaving post-it notes everywhere about the trash needing to go out (instead of taking it themselves), ants in their room (instead of calling the building maintenance themselves), dishes that needed to be washed (yep, instead of washing their own dishes themselves.) When I decided to move out I left them a post-it telling them what thoughtless bitches they were. Passive aggressive? Yes. Satisfying? Yes.
Oct 21, 2013 at 5:30 am rating: 24
H for Toy
It wasn’t until I’d been married for a couple years that I ever took the garbage out. Growing up, my dad always did it, and in all my roommate situations, either I moved into an established household where the garbage schedule was already figured out, or someone had a new boyfriend who wanted to impress their girl. I even lived alone for a year, but my best friend’s fiancé had to pay for garbage stickers, so in exchange for letting him drop his garbage on my sticker-free curb, he took my trash out every week. When my husband suggested that I take it out myself, instead of reminding him that the garbage needed a date, I realized I’d never, ever taken garbage out in my life, and I’d been pretty spoiled all my life. Not to say that excuses your roommates behavior, but possibly it didn’t occur to them that they were capable of the task?
Oct 21, 2013 at 8:25 am rating: 17
@ H for Toy Wow. Just wow. Takes courage to admit something like that.
Oct 21, 2013 at 4:49 pm rating: 9
H for Toy
Kitten, I probably wouldn’t have, had I been a Princess who refused to take out the garbage. I did regularly change my own oil, and had the opportunity to change more than one flat tire, so I wasn’t that kind of girl. I just never realized until nearly 30, that I never took the garbage out. I do it now pretty frequently.
Oct 21, 2013 at 5:29 pm rating: 3
Ah I see. That’s understandable then.
Oct 21, 2013 at 5:42 pm rating: 2
H For Toy- I would say that was the case with one, she was definitely of the princess variety. The ant issue really got me- they left food and dirty dishes laying around their room and then were surprised, disgusted, and completely confused when ants showed up . IN FLORIDA.
The other was really just dumb, she got lost once when she went to the bank that was literally directly in front of the apartment complex and was gone most of the day. When she came back she had nothing to show for it because she didn’t realize she could use the outdoor ATM when the bank was closed.
Oct 21, 2013 at 7:54 pm rating: 6
H for Toy
Wow, CMG! She sounds like a special kind of stupid! Though, neither of them were too bright if they didn’t realize that leaving food around was going to attract something!
Oct 22, 2013 at 6:33 am rating: 5
She didn’t think that it would attract ants. She thought it would attract roommates who would do the dishes.
Oct 22, 2013 at 11:23 am rating: 11
@H is for Troy I think I’ve dumped a bag into the garbage can once? Maybe? Not my chore XD I’ve brought the garbage can back into the yard from the driveway… It’s just really not my chore. I shove snow, do dishes, clean the house, budget the groceries and shop for them, get the mail (it’s 4 blocks away, if I didn’t, we’d never get mail) but that’s just one chore that isn’t… MINE.
However they sound like a special kind of special there
Oct 24, 2013 at 1:24 am rating: 2
It’s not me, it’s you.
Oct 21, 2013 at 6:28 am rating: 14
Maybe it’s just me, but I don’t really understand why people are upset about this kind of fade out.
One person obviously feels that the situation is irredeemable, so they decided to leave. Is talking to them about it really going to change their mind and get them to stay? Probably not.
Be glad that this is the most drama-free scenario possible that could have happened. And move on to find a new room-mate.
Oct 21, 2013 at 7:24 am rating: 5
You’ve got your roommates mixed up. Notewriter is staying. Notewriter wants submitter to leave. If Notewriter faded out and left on her own terms, that would be a bit different.
Oct 21, 2013 at 8:00 am rating: 15
I’d be upset by the fade out because now what? I am supposed to find a new place, pack all my stuff, and move? Or you leave and I ams tuck with the rent? I think it is shitty to not keep one’ send of a financial arrangement, barring a really bad situation.
Oct 21, 2013 at 9:20 am rating: 13
Presumably she would have signed a contract making her responsible for the rent whether she was there or not. But I suppose that depends on where they were living.
…which adds yet another layer of shittiness to the “MOVE OUT NOW” note if that is true of their situation.
Oct 21, 2013 at 1:49 pm rating: 0
The fade out can really suck, depending on the timing. We sublet a room to a friend after our original roommate left (and that was a whole other crappy situation, but she boned out on her half of the lease), with the understanding that she would stay for the remaining 6 months of our lease and at the end we would either all move or all stay, depending on how it went. Well, new roomie gave us a note saying she was leaving with no notice with only one month left on our lease, so we were stuck in a bad financial situation paying for the other half of the apartment and unable to find a temp roomie for just one month. It just sucked.
Oct 21, 2013 at 4:28 pm rating: 1
I don’t want to have any hard feelings. You, on the other hand, may have as many hard feelings as you desire.
Oct 21, 2013 at 7:27 am rating: 34
Oct 21, 2013 at 9:20 am rating: 4
That’s what I was thinking too. Ha ha.
Oct 21, 2013 at 7:33 pm rating: 0
I once shared an apartment with a roommate who purchased a condo while we were in the apartment. I knew that she would be moving out shortly, however I anticipated that, since we were both adults, she would give me reasonable notice of her move-out date so I could find another roommate.
She did not. She chose to email me at work, and inform me that she was moving in two weeks and that we were not going to discuss the matter at all. Then I found out from the complex manager that she had given one month notice to the complex two weeks prior, and had only paid for half the month and stuck me with her other two weeks rent for that month. The manager said that she had informed her that we agreed on this decision.
When she then got annoyed with me for showing her room to potential replacement roommates prior to her move-out date, I chose to stop speaking to her.
Oct 21, 2013 at 9:40 am rating: 20
Oh, I would have shown her room EVERY DAY, while she was sleeping. Just fling open the door and let the people waddle right on in. Serve kettle corn.
Oct 21, 2013 at 9:55 am rating: 42
I had a roommate who gave me two days’ notice after having given the office a full month’s notice. When I asked him about it, he said the lease was only for 6 months and so he assumed I knew he was moving out. Except we had opted to go 6 months lease, then month-to-month after that and he had never told us he was even thinking about moving out, and he left without paying half of the bills he owed.
Oct 22, 2013 at 11:23 pm rating: 0
The problem with our societies nowadays is that most people are scheming, underhanded, gutless, spineless, and cowardly, just like our “representatives” in the government. I have a lot of respect for a person who confronts me face to face and tells it like it is. My ego is quite tough and can take it.
Oct 21, 2013 at 11:12 am rating: 6
I sure hope Carole doesn’t live in an area where it’s basically impossible to kick someone out. If someone tried to boot me that way I’d make it as hard on their life as possible. You started the hard feelings express with your lack of communication, Sally.
Oct 21, 2013 at 1:53 pm rating: 4
It never ceases to amaze me how careless people are with who they live with. I mean, I get college dorms where you may not have a choice, but there, moving yourself is not usually a big deal. When it comes to apartments, well, that’s a whole other bird. I know that often roommates are young, but YOU’RE SIGNING A LEGAL AGREEMENT, GOVERNED BY EXTENSIVE LAWS. YOU’RE generally responsible for the whole rent (yes, unless your lease specifically designates that you pay only a portion of the total rent, that is, if the lease has a joint and several liability clause, YOU can be held solely liable for the whole rent). YOU’RE also responsible for the condition of the whole apartment, under almost all circumstances (I suppose there might be a landlord out there that metes out damages by bedroom, but you’re AT LEAST potentially solely responsible for damage or filth in common areas). You can be sued by your landlord, your roommate, or both. You can be evicted because of the roommate’s (or their guests’) behavior. It’s a huge responsibility!
Oct 21, 2013 at 6:41 pm rating: 7
And, yes, I’ve lived with some people who I thought I knew well and ended up having some disagreements with. But never to the level of abrogating responsibility or becoming un-civil for more than a few minutes, always with an apology and a constructive discussion to follow. Mostly because I always insisted on a roommate agreement that clearly specified what expenses everyone was responsible for AND regulated behavior – like dishes were to be washed or put in the dishwasher within 12 hours of use and guests were not to stay longer than a week without consent of the other roommates (I had one foreign roommate who became really upset with this because she had a friend coming in from abroad for a week and a half and thought that meant she *couldn’t* stay…of course we were, like, “of COURSE she can stay for her visit! That’s to keep people from moving their boyfriend in. If she has a plane ticket home at the end of her visit, you TOTALLY have our consent to let her stay!”). The “issues” were more about cooking stinky food late at night or wearing heels in the house early in the morning, and we were always able to work these minor issues out when everyone was well-rested and calm.
Oct 21, 2013 at 6:53 pm rating: 4
I agree – and that’s why I will do nearly anything to avoid having a roommate I’m not having sex with.
Oct 21, 2013 at 7:16 pm rating: 7
I avoid having roommates I have sex with as well. When I’m financially forced into a roommate situation I choose an unattractive woman. Woman, because I get along better with them, and unattractive so I won’t be tempted to overcomplicate things by wanting to stick my rod and lures in her tackle box.
I think this backfired with the girl I lived with in grad school though, because I think SHE wanted to sleep with me, and couldn’t imagine a world in which a man would turn down D cups.
I don’t say that purely out of arrogance, she knew I was moderately promiscuous, and she was also sending out signals that on any girl I was attracted to I would’ve made a move on quite early.
Oct 21, 2013 at 10:31 pm rating: 0
I have a fairly decent roomie situation right now, though most wouldn’t think so on the surface. I share a basement suite with my sister. I’ll admit that it is my parents’ basement, but we do pay rent to them. It is much less then we would pay for an apartment even if we could find one that would take a dog, two cats, and a rabbit.
For me, this best because I’m only home about five days out of the month(and rarely are they consecutive) due to work. Basically I’m paying rent to store all my shit and have a place to crash about once a week. And, since I’m gone most of the time, my sister and I are not together long enough for us to get into the fights we had as kids.
Oct 22, 2013 at 7:59 pm rating: 3
Nov 5, 2013 at 9:44 pm rating: 0
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